Fire extinguishers; can we conclude?

[LittleSister]

I would also mention fire blankets which are equally valuable and have no expiry date.

Agree.

Unfortunately, they all seem to be made in the same wide and flat holder format holder these days, which is difficult on a small boat to find a home for that is not inconvenient and/or in your face. In a previous boat I had a blanket which had a holder maybe an inch and a half or so wide and deep, and about 8 inches tall - much easier to find a nook or cranny to mount it. I wish I'd hung on to that one.

 

[Cerebus]

Commercial shipping and offshore rigs etc are required to have extinguishers of the appropriate type "handy by" the related risks.
This usually includes a great many dry powder extinguishers...

So I was looking for a conclusion for boat users (including leisure users). An open discussion, not a bee in my bonnet.

The above post states “appropriate” type; implies there is a difference in fighting fires.

If powder was the conclusion, there would be no colour coding and a range of extinguishers lined up next to each other all around the world would there?

Powder may be great if it works. I am perturbed by the compacting nature of these extinguishers (that does not affect others extinguishers).

If water can extinguish a 240v live tv, does that mean the sailor in plimsolls can stand in the puddle? I don’t know, but it sounds dubious. Water may extinguish the fire but if 240v is still live, won’t the puddle still be live?

I have not seen water mist on an oil fire. I will search.

Unfortunately I do know that the wrong extinguisher used upon a fire of molten substance caused an explosion and the person was lucky to escape with their life.

Is this discussion beyond the realms of a forum and in need of official expert advice?

I can’t find what the RYA has to say (if anything).

Does the RNLI that really does know a lot about so much have an answer I wonder?

For now, carrying foam, co2 water mist (with its cooling effects is great), powder (with its terrible storing restrictions) halon substitutes in auto extinguishers installed in engine bays seems the answer.

Fire on board is really bad as everyone has known for centuries, so making room for correct types of extinguishers seems sensible.

I have no answer, just questions.

I just found this:

Types of Fire Extinguisher.

From link above I have just learned that wet chemical extinguisher for class F fires is pretty much the only type safe for chip pan (and therefore oil?) fires (as well as a fire blanket and wet T-towel (I am guessing).

Complex subject.

 

[benjenbav]

I’ve been in too many workplace briefings where someone patiently tries to explain which extinguisher is suitable for which fire, to folks (including me) who aren’t paying attention - many of whom (also including me) might just about be relied on to find a fire exit provided there’s no smoke and all of whom (definitely including me) would be displaced from their comfort-zone by a real fire.

As such, when water mist extinguishers were launched and rated for most sorts of domestic fire, I bought some.

So far, I’ve not had to use one. If I did I doubt I’d make much of a fist of it but, probably better than if simultaneously blindsided by having to choose the blue one or the red one and what do they each contain and what are they intended for?

Plus, I no longer own a boat. So, feel free to disregard all of the above.

 

[Cerebus]

I’ve been in too many workplace briefings where someone patiently tries to explain which extinguisher is suitable for which fire, to folks (including me) who aren’t paying attention - many of whom (also including me) might just about be relied on to find a fire exit provided there’s no smoke and all of whom (definitely including me) would be displaced from their comfort-zone by a real fire.

As such, when water mist extinguishers were launched and rated for most sorts of domestic fire, I bought some.

So far, I’ve not had to use one. If I did I doubt I’d make much of a fist of it but, probably better than if simultaneously blindsided by having to choose the blue one or the red one and what do they each contain and what are they intended for?

Plus, I no longer own a boat. So, feel free to disregard all of the above.

Yes, unfortunately it is complex and add the ‘excitement’ for want of a better word, choosing the correct extinguisher could be problematic (or deadly).

When seeing 5 extinguishers against a wall and all colour coded with writing abound I thought what a confusing mess.

Water mist covers many categories and is a great product so perhaps that is why it is chosen even if it does not cover all eventualities.

No conclusions drawn from this discussion unfortunately.

 

[Marsali_1]

As someone with quite a few years involvement as a trained member of a rural volunteer fire service, my recommendation to anyone reading and posting on this thread is to ignore the sales pitches from the various extinguisher companies about what their various extinguishers can do. The sole point of their campaigns is to sell their products and they tend to turn complex safety issues into trivial statements.

There are a number of extinguishing agents which are intended for specific purposes and may not be effective outside their designed uses or may not have sufficient capacity for the size of fire. That sort of information is available through online research but my suggestion is that anyone who wishes informed and unbiased information about fire extinguishers for their boat should approach their local fire service (they seem to have open house days in most places) and speak to someone in their training section. Bigger departments often send training/information officers out to community events to answer questions from the public.

 

[Cerebus]

As someone with quite a few years involvement as a trained member of a rural volunteer fire service, my recommendation to anyone reading and posting on this thread is to ignore the sales pitches from the various extinguisher companies about what their various extinguishers can do. The sole point of their campaigns is to sell their products and they tend to turn complex safety issues into trivial statements.

There are a number of extinguishing agents which are intended for specific purposes and may not be effective outside their designed uses or may not have sufficient capacity for the size of fire. That sort of information is available through online research but my suggestion is that anyone who wishes informed and unbiased information about fire extinguishers for their boat should approach their local fire service (they seem to have open house days in most places) and speak to someone in their training section. Bigger departments often send training/information officers out to community events to answer questions from the public.

Superb advice.

Don’t get me started on “fire sticks”; even the name is silly in my h. o.

A product where marketing performs better than the product possibly.

I guess you cannot give your opinions for professional reasons.

Thank you

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Dry Powder are ridiculously low cost and water mist expensive. Very likely you will not have a fire, so why buy an expensive extinguisher when a low cost extinguisher will do the job as well.

I don’t think the mess and restrictive vision risks are good enough reasons to make my sailing anymore expensive. The powder is safe to breath for a limited time. Regarding the loss of visibility, every two years I renew certification for my job role, which includes fire fighting. The flames are easily detected through the dry powder mist. Do not use on cooking oil fires, use a fire blanket for that.

The RYA do offer advice via their book RYA Boat Safety Handbook E-G103, which can be bought as an ebook or hard copy. There is a whole chapter on dealing with fire. It describes the various fire extinguishers available and the pros and cons of each. For dry powder it does state that although ubiquitous on boats it is not recommended in cabins because of the visibility and breathing hazards, but states it is the most effective type. The book also describes the various engine space fire extinguishers. The first section discusses prevention and having a fire plan.

The OP would do well to purchase a copy of this book to decide on the needs for their type of sailing and boat.

RYA Boat Safety Handbook (eBook)

 

[boomerangben]

I’m no fire warden or expert. Water mist (built in type systems) have been in large ships for many years so it is a well regarded system. My concern would be protecting against corrosion. The mist presumably requires a fairly precise “atomiser” which if not looked after/made of the wrong stuff ie designed for inside a heated building not a saline damp boat cabin might not provide the mist required when used 10 years after it was acquired.

I have done fire training courses over the years and the big take home for me was how big (or more accurately how small) a fire can be fought with a standard sized extinguisher. To my mind a pair of running shoes (yes I know, don’t run walk) is a better option than fighting anything bigger than a paper bin fire. Fire prevention on a boat has to be the main priority because quite frankly a life raft is going to be very quickly your only option when a fire takes hold.

 

[ylop]

if not looked after/made of the wrong stuff ie designed for inside a heated building not a saline damp boat cabin might not provide the mist required when used 10 years after it was acquired.

I think if you buy any extinguisher and leave it sitting on a damp boat for 10 years you are asking for trouble - the simplest of things like the pin you pull out to “unlock” it or the levers you then squeeze can corrode.

I like the idea of water mist, but what happens in temperatures below freezing, perhaps not a huge problem with heated boats, but still a risk I think in the winter months.

A good point. Google says there is a special low temperature version available (for even more £ of course!).

I would also mention fire blankets which are equally valuable and have no expiry date.

Agreed - and frankly if the fire is too big for a fire blanket your time might be better spent on a mayday call and launching the liferaft than an extinguisher!

 

[Roberto]

Fire prevention on a boat has to be the main priority because quite frankly a life raft is going to be very quickly your only option when a fire takes hold.

I once posted a video of a Mini650 boat where the Li-ion battery caught fire, the guy eventually had to go into the liferaft but the water ballast pockets made it almost impossible to steer it away, he was stuck quite some time so near the boat that incandescent particles were falling all over the place, really not a pleasant situation. He eventually managed to paddle away, and watch the boat disappear in a cloud of smoke.

 

[ylop]

Agree.

Unfortunately, they all seem to be made in the same wide and flat holder format holder these days, which is difficult on a small boat to find a home for that is not inconvenient and/or in your face. In a previous boat I had a blanket which had a holder maybe an inch and a half or so wide and deep, and about 8 inches tall - much easier to find a nook or cranny to mount it. I wish I'd hung on to that one.

I recall such a thing in my grandmothers house next to the cooker. I wonder if it contained asbestos… it would have been of the era where it was a wonder material used for anything hot…

 

[LittleSister]

I recall such a thing in my grandmothers house next to the cooker. I wonder if it contained asbestos… it would have been of the era where it was a wonder material used for anything hot…

The one I had was not that old. It was just a different shaped plastic holder (I think!).

Whatever it was, I've survived this long despite proximity to it.

 

[boomerangben]

I think if you buy any extinguisher and leave it sitting on a damp boat for 10 years you are asking for trouble - the simplest of things like the pin you pull out to “unlock” it or the levers you then squeeze can corrode.

I take your point about leaving things 10 years. But a bit of rust on a pin might not impair its use, whereas that same size piece of rust in the atomiser might make a significant difference in the capability of the extinguisher.

However I hope the atomisers are either made of suitable stainless or bronze or plastic and are protected from dust and other crud. Or are specifically designed for the marine environment (and carry the markup in price!)

 

[ylop]

I take your point about leaving things 10 years. But a bit of rust on a pin might not impair its use, whereas that same size piece of rust in the atomiser might make a significant difference in the capability of the extinguisher.

I was thinking that a rusted pin may be impossible to remove (or at least remove quickly) although small ones might all be plastic tags now.

However I hope the atomisers are either made of suitable stainless or bronze or plastic and are protected from dust and other crud. Or are specifically designed for the marine environment (and carry the markup in price!)

the only one I've held looked like it was just plastic (but there might be metal hiding inside) they aren't at the budget end of things anyway. Some of the "sales pitch" is about costs more but last longer without maintenance so even in an office or workshop environment, you would hope corrosion was considered...