Financing life aboard by taking on guests

I always read these threads. Somewhere at the back of my mind the dream lies dormant ready to be revived by even the slightest hope it could work. I’ve looked into it and the numbers just don’t add up.

The big operations run a “scam” getting owners to pay the capital costs for an otherwise non viable business by “selling” owner time like lots of charters and reducing the cost of ownership to dreamers who would like to own a nice boat they couldn’t afford without impacting other aspects of thier life.
It works well for some people if it meets there objective. So long as they realize they still have to be able to afford to pay a significant proportion of the boats cost. And it’s extremely unlikely to pay all the cost or turn even a small profit.
The big operator works as an agent and makes its profit from its cut from the charter fee without the huge capital cost to pay.

There are small operators who have a successfully found a niche for themselves who do ok. So it can be done.

To be successful you will probably need to own the vessel free and clear. Which requires a lot of capital from which you would find almost any investment would yield a better return.
If you have to earn fees to make payments you will probably find there just isn’t enough weeks Charter in even the Caribbean to break even.
To make enough to live on without making payments is probably possible. A few people do this. It will be difficult. Are you good at marketing. Will you have the time and the desire to take on the job of marketing your vessel while trying to sail. And cater to paying guests at the same time. Some people do. But it’s difficult.

Or are you willing to pay a significant portion of the charter fee to a broker or company who does the marketing for you.
I might have called them “A Scam”. They provide a service and most importantly clients and income, probably much more than you are likely to find on your own. You will be competing for clients with all the other boats they represent. What makes yours special? Why would it stand out to a potential client?

Two choices I have seen be moderately successful. be the best and and the top of the market offering something unique.
Or
Old low cost boat, low overhead, market bottom feeeder. Cheapest cheerful. Add in instruction or adventure. Think backpacker hostel rather than luxury. Again tough choice. Lot of brokers won’t be interested.

On the other hand. If you own a nice boat you can afford without having to earn charter income. You may be able to add a top up to your sailing budget by offering a few crewed charters.

The regulations you need to comply with will vary greatly depending upon where you register your boat and may be quite costly for little gain. You may also be severely restricted by local regulations about boats chartering within thier waters.

One way to try and avoid this is to do international trips. Which are harder to get clients for. How many people will do a one way trip without the advantages of return airfare from a single start and finish location.?

I’ve never figured out a way for me to do this and a friend runs a sailing school and charter company.
I own my own boat.
I meet my local requirements to operate a small commercial vessel under domestic regulations.
My boat is a cheep and cheerful bottom feeder. He has gone up market now. No longer interested in cheep and cheerful.

I can’t be bothered trying to do the marketing. So I will stick to my day job. I make more and can afford to fit a cheep and cheerful older boat into my lifestyle.
The cost of getting my boat up to the requirements to charter or carry paying passengers. Is more than I am likley to make in return.
The cost of maintaining, insuring, mooring, a boat to the required standard is way to high.
The cost of a nice new boat is out of my budget.

You have other choices. Pick a boat you can afford to pay for and still have sufficient savings or income for you to cover your living and sailing expenses on for the duration of your planned cruising.

Or moderate your cruising plans, to fitting in with your day jobs time or income restraints.
 
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I set up my boat for charter (as UK flagged vessel) and aimed at premium evening cruises for guests from top end hotels. Just a couple or maybe four for an evening sunset cruise with premium food and champagne prepared by hotel chef or on board caterer. In practice despite some hotels being up for it we wanted to cruise and explore too much so we never chartered.

I do know one couple working as skipper hostess on a biggish (50') cat and I'm sure they charge at least £6K a week, but food/wine/champagne is included. The food is like the best ski chalet with cakes, breakfast, lunch , dinner all sorted. They also teach kiteboard, ski and dive.

And planes! I toyed with the idea of a seaplane service in Scandinavia....now that's risky/dreaming and very expensive.
 
rszemeti said:
The parts are merely eye-watering, what really gets you is the labour.
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Luckily I was flying things without engines and it those days could do most of the work myself. Even paid work wasn't too bad, especially on wood and GRP. Anything on metal (Blaniks and the like) cost a fortune because although it wasn't necessary to use a licensed mechanic, only licensed mechanics knew how to do it and had the equipment.
 
Uricanejack said:
.... There are small operators who have a successfully found a niche for themselves who do ok. So it can be done. ........... To be successful you will probably need to own the vessel free and clear. Which requires a lot of capital from which you would find almost any investment would yield a better return. .....
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Probably, especially owning the boat outright bit.

The two companies I quoted in my earlier post have substantial yachts that are managed well and maintained to a high standard. Also Corryvreckan built their boat from the proceeds of the sale of their old boat and I assume the profit from their business. There are a couple of Luke Powell Pilot Cutters built for commercial sailing and at least one sea school that has built a new steel yacht, all funded from their businesses. In each of these cases the owners have been wise with the money and managed their businesses well.

The OPs 2 questions suggest that the business plan is not credible based on 6 months work and he has put little thought or research into the area of operation and selecting the one that gives the best return. With that attitude the OP will not succeed. However, my examples show that it can be done at a high standard and a quality life can be had. I am pretty sure that both businesses I quote run March to October, inclusive. Hence after out of season maintenance is carried out, time off can be had, maybe a day or two to buy new knee pads, visit the back doctor and see a psychiatrist. I jest about the psychiatrist.

To the OP, join a company that offers 28 days on, 28 days off, such as a shipping company, oil rig company, get paid tax free money for 6 months of the year. It will be less stressful and could be quite lucrative, high risk of partner leaving you for a person that does not spend 6 months equivalent away from home.
 
DownWest said:
Not so sure.. used to run into lots of people who spent a couple of weeks in S Iberia, then thought they could run a bar. Their total experience in bars was just that. drinking in them. If you want to run a business in another country, you have to be a knotch up on the locals. Bit different if you are Sunsail or the Moorings.
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I read that as "a couple of weeks in Siberia". :D
 
What, if any, sailing and hospitality experience do you have?

If the answer is "little or none", I suggest you put your dreams to one side and go and try it. Make sure that you get some time in foul weather and bumpy seas. Try working in a hotel for a while. If, after that both of you are really hooked by sailing and hospitality, then get the dreams out again and work out very carefully exactly what qualifications and experience you would both need. Work out the time and cost of getting the experience and qualifications.

Then have a look at possible boats which would be acceptable to the clientele you hope to attract. Think about capital cost, running costs, repair costs and mooring costs. Think about food and drink costs for yourselves and your guests. Will you be able to charge guests enough to cover all the costs of the boat while they are aboard? Can you, in addition, charge them enough to cover the costs for (most of which won't change) for the time they are not on board? Remember that if you are only doing this for 6 months per year, the charge for each week has to cover at least 2 weeks' costs and probably more because you are unlikely to guarantee filling all the spaces every week.

Perhaps don't give up the day job just yet!
 
Wansworth said:
Op hasn’t been back looks like his dream has been trashed!
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Well, I would not say thrashed, but well, confronted with reality a bit. Which is exactly what I was shooting for.

Thistle said:
Remember that if you are only doing this for 6 months per year, the charge for each week has to cover at least 2 weeks' costs and probably more because you are unlikely to guarantee filling all the spaces every week.
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I wanted to convince my wife to do this with me, my reasoning was do this for half the time, have the rest of the time to cruise on our own and take care of the boat.

I have some experience with hospitality, almost none with sailing. I know there is long way to go, my main goal with this thread was to discover if this is doable (which it seems it is) and how much did I not think of (a lot, of course).
 
sailinghonza said:
Well, I would not say thrashed, but well, confronted with reality a bit. Which is exactly what I was shooting for.



I wanted to convince my wife to do this with me, my reasoning was do this for half the time, have the rest of the time to cruise on our own and take care of the boat.

I have some experience with hospitality, almost none with sailing. I know there is long way to go, my main goal with this thread was to discover if this is doable (which it seems it is) and how much did I not think of (a lot, of course).
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it is durable , just costs a lot of money to set up and as long as you have a good attitude and can get the experrince and have a good cash flow , as like any new start up the initial layout is quite large.
to start from scratch will take time and hard work , but it can be done , there is nothing in the world you can not do if you put your mind to it. try cruisers frum as there is a few that do this on that website , you might get more info
We dont want to put you of but just the reality of the task.
Remember people are paying for a service and their demands might be high , 15 years in the hospitality industry has given me a little experience , and I personally would not do it , but I am retired from this work.
Good luck
 
I would think a more reasonable plan would be:

Year 1: learn to sail with friends on 2 or 3 cruises

Year 2: take day skipper or coastal skipper course, rent boats, take 2 or 3 cruises, includign one longer voyage.

Year 3: take Yachtmaster, buy boat, make a some longer voyages.

Year 4: take some guests ...

Taking paying guests is a big reposnsibility, it takes experience and skill, this cannot be learned from books. Until you have been at night in a F8, trying to find your way ... you need to experience it and be confident in how to deal with all the situations that can occur on a boat, then you are in a position to take guests.

And as a final point: you talk of "financing life aboard" .. honestly, if you think it costs a lot of money to buy a boat and run it for yourself ... the cost of buying a boat suitable for guests and running it is ten times .. if you cannot finance yourself, you won't be able to finance this business. You could probably live aboard and cruise for 10 years on a 35 foot boat for what it will cost to buy and equip and maintain a bigger boat for guests ...
 
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Most posts seem to forget the requirement for a master's ticket of appropriate level to skipper the "coded" boat for commercial operation. (coded meaning inspected to a safety standard acceptable to the local authorities. Certainly here in west Oz and I imagine in all civilised jurisdictions there would be similar requirements. Certainly master's tickets take study exams and sea time . As said the only alternative is to run under the radar (ilegal) so advertising is difficult not to mention insurance etc. As said it is not easy (practical) to seek to finance your dream with charter work. Forget it. The only way to slightly improve your finances while cruising is if you have a skill which can be pedaled around to pick up a few dollars. ol'will
 
sailinghonza said:
I am from Prague (CZ) - land dweller. I have become fascinated by the possibility of living on board a boat and cruising the world. After watching tons of vids on youtube and reading many articles about boats, sailing and living aboard I think I am getting a some understanding of what it means.

I know that before buying I need to get more experience, so I think next holiday will be a charter (preferably bareboat with friends who can handle it) and then probably some sailing education.

For a liveaboad I have my eyes set on a cat, because frankly I would not convince my wife to live on anything else. I think we could muster up enough money to buy a cat of decent size and condition so the question remains how to pay the cost of living.

One idea is to find remote work, which could be possible, but also quite problematic in remote areas. So I have came up with the idea to offer our extra berths for charter. Take some people on board, teach them paddle-boarding, kite surfing and of course sailing. I have done some calculations on how much I would need to charge for such a service and I think I could fit into the niche between crewed charters and bareboat rentals with the additional value we as crew could provide to our guests.

I have two questions:
1) My preferred outcome would be work no more than half-year and have the rest of the year to ourselves. I have done some research and came up with a basic yearly budged and from that came up with a weekly price of about 5-6k USD, does that sound right?

2) are there any legal requirements for such business? I would be providing my services world-wide, so my understanding is that this very much depends on where I decide to incorporate, if at all, and subsequently pay taxes. Should I? Where? Any marine regulations I should be aware of?

Thanks for all your tips and opinions.
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Hi, welcome to the Forum.
Dreaming is good, and asking questions to understand the depth and feasibility of the Dream even better.
There are some that are “realists” and hold the flames of Truth in sacred communion and will not hesitate to flog you with it, not realising that the Truth, is like offering a Rose to a Lady. Carefully and gently so you don’t destroy the petals, or break the stem and handing it with enough care she does not prick her fingers on the thorns.

Each of those questions demand answers that are not simple. Some are interlinked and others dependant on capital to invest and know how. But it is feasible in principle at least.

For what you propose there are a couple of ways, none easy I’m afraid but a goal to aim for.
This is a company that started with a boat but with a lot of sailing experience. I think in your case you would have to aim for a couple of years gaining experience and understanding of the problems you’re facing.

https://www.rubicon3.co.uk/more-about-us.html

You would also need to code the Boat to CAT 0 which is the only Cat that allows you to sail anywhere. Most charter companies do not have that. They stay on CAT 2. They are not prohibitively expensive to obtain but demand the right equip on board and qualifications you need to acquire.

http://www.universalyachting.com/charter-coding-service/

Sailing for 6 months and working the other 6 may not be the best example as independently of your marketing skills or agents you will struggle at first to fit 6 months full. You could however disperse occupation around the year not restricting yourself to the 6 months idea and see how that could work.
Take a look at those links to get an idea.

Wish you all the best. But FIRST get qualified as a sailor before you decide anything else. My own 2 cents.

https://www.rya.org.uk/Pages/Home.aspx

Good luck.
 
Couple of 40' newish cats around me here in Panama do that. Been all over the Caribbean. They charge 60 USD pppd. That includes food, which is cooked by the hosts, plus some other domestic costs. Unofficial, no paperwork. This barely covers damage / wear and tear costs from inexperienced crew, maybe covers sundowners each evening. Difficult in this market to up the price unless you have cache or a special product and marketing channel for 'unique' experiences.
 
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siwhi said:
Unofficial, no paperwork.
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Fine ... until the brown stuff hits the whirling thing and you find insurers - if there are any - rapidly and confidently walking away, leaving you to face unlimited costs and possible jail time.
 
rszemeti said:
I would think a more reasonable plan would be:...

Year 1: learn to sail with friends on 2 or 3 cruises


Year 2: take day skipper or coastal skipper course, rent boats, take 2 or 3 cruises, includign one longer voyage.


Year 3: take Yachtmaster, buy boat, make a some longer voyages.


Year 4: take some guests ...
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1 to 3 can be done in Year 1, it is already done in less than one year by fast tracks in the RYA Scheme. If he is serious about this there are ways to get it done. For example, book himself on a fastback course, buy the boat in year 1 and get it ready for coding, get it coded in year 1. It's not impossible or even particularly problematic. Of course fast track may not be available for all competancy schemes, unlike the RYA's Yachtmaster.
 
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Thistle said:
Fine ... until the brown stuff hits the whirling thing and you find insurers - if there are any - rapidly and confidently walking away, leaving you to face unlimited costs and possible jail time.
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+1

If it does hit the fan, you will come under great scrutiny - just look at the Cheeky Rafiki incident,
 
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