finance co. want original bill of sale

[grumpyoldman]

We have sold our boat to a buyer in the UK, he is required by the finance company to part 1 register the boat - for them to release the finance.

We were the third owners of the boat (originally bought in Italy on a lease agreement - then sold to the second owner from whom we purchased, we have the original bill of sale from the second owner to ourselves, our UK buyer will have a bill of sale from ourselves to him.

As we understand it the finance house are saying that to complete the part 1 registration they require the Original bill of sale to the first purchaser, we only have a copy as does he. The finance company insist that this is not their requirement, but, a requirement of part 1 marine registration in the UK.

I have my own original but only have copies of previous 2 owners. Where do we stand if we can't source originals?

advice gratefully received.

 

[Seastoke]

surely the person who paid the original purchase needs to keep is bill of sale to prove he paid in full

 

[Whitelighter]

The British registry are a nightmare.

Speak to Ward & Mckenzie (http://www.ward-mckenzie.co.uk/) - I have had the similar issues but managed to get my boat P1 registered without the original bill of sale and only a copy of the previous bill of sale.

It will probably cost you £1200 or so but it's worth it.

 

[Tranona]

The original BofS is not necessary on an older boat as you normally only need 5 years history. They will need the two that you have, plus the deregistration from the Italian registry.

If you sold through a broker then he would normally sort this out. If you sold privately then you and the buyer have to sort it between you. No need for a specialist lawyer - you either have the paperwork or you don't. So give the registry a call to clarify exactly what they need.

 

[MapisM]

I have my own original but only have copies of previous 2 owners.

If you mean that you have also a copy of the first invoice from the builder to the bank who arranged the leasing, you are already lucky.
Several first owners in IT bought through leasing, and neither asked the bank nor the builder to get a copy of the first invoice - which indeed is only a requirement for the transaction between the seller (boatbuilder) and the "formal" buyer (bank).
Just scan the copy you have in HR, make a bit of "cleaning" if and where necessary, reprint it, and give it to them pretending it's the original.
You know, original invoices don't have a notary seal or whatever on them: they are just text and numbers printed on a sheet of paper - exactly the same as the copy you've got.
There is absolutely no way to distinguish a copy from an original, other than from blemishes on the copy, if any.

 

[ari]

The original BofS is not necessary on an older boat as you normally only need 5 years history. They will need the two that you have, plus the deregistration from the Italian registry.

Whilst you are quite right about the five years proof of title to register on Part One, if I understand correctly, he only has an original (as opposed to photocopy) of the Bill of Sale to him. Previous Bills of Sale are photocopies, which I don't believe the registrar will accept. So if his Bill of Sale from his purchase is only a couple of years old, he doesn't have five years proof of title evidenced by original Bills of Sale as required by the registrar.

 

[Whitelighter]

If you ring the registry they will insist on originals.

Mine are copies. My boat is on the P1
All that is due to W&M intervention but as usual, Tranona knows all. Perhaps he'll do it for you

 

[MapisM]

Previous Bills of Sale are photocopies, which I don't believe the registrar will accept.

Can anyone explain me what the difference is, and how can anybody pretend to be able to tell what is a copy and what is an original?
These days, invoices are often exchanged between the parties involved as PDF files - of which most companies don't even make a paper copy. And even those who do, it's just a printout, pretty much as what comes out of the photocopy machine...

 

[Whitelighter]

Because the British registry behave like it's still 1792.
Even with the help of W&M I had to jump through a number of hoops but it got registered which otherwise it wouldn't have done

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

If the British Registry at Cardiff are proving difficult it may be that the finance co will accept Guernsey registration who are usually less anal about documentation. Other than that I will second whitelighter's recommendation for Ward & McKenzie who once helped me get a boat I'd purchased in Germany registered in the UK and they were excellent

 

[Tranona]

If you ring the registry they will insist on originals.

Mine are copies. My boat is on the P1
All that is due to W&M intervention but as usual, Tranona knows all. Perhaps he'll do it for you

It is not a question of me "knowing all", but reading the original question more carefully. The "copy" refers to the original BofS. He has the originals of the sale to him and the sale to the new owner and if that totals 5 year's history then the copy of the first sale from the builder to the leasing company is not needed.

This also answers ari's point - assuming the total is over 5 years.

 

[petem]

If the OP has owned the boat for more than five years then he is OK as he has the original BoS proving ownership for the past five years. The stuff that predates that is irrelevant isn't it (http://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectio...n in the UK/BOAT REGISTRATION IN THE UK.pdf)?

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Oh the British registry. You have Part.3 which needs nothing, and part.1 which wants the impossible.

God bless the queen!

 

[grumpyoldman]

Thank you for your collective experience and suggestions.

We dont have the requisite 5 years.

We will talk to W&M- were unaware of their existance if that fails we will remember the other points about the differences between photocopies and originals.

Our buyer is very anxious to complete - as are we!

Apologies for delay in replying there was glorious weather here and an ocean beckoning !!

 

[ari]

Oh the British registry. You have Part.3 which needs nothing, and part.1 which wants the impossible.

God bless the queen!

They used to require an unbroken chain of Bills of Sale right back to, and including, the Build Certificate!

Five years proof of title doesn't seem too unreasonable (although it is all a bit pointless as 'proof' now there is no starting point).

 

[ari]

Thank you for your collective experience and suggestions.

We dont have the requisite 5 years.

We will talk to W&M- were unaware of their existance if that fails we will remember the other points about the differences between photocopies and originals.

Our buyer is very anxious to complete - as are we!

Apologies for delay in replying there was glorious weather here and an ocean beckoning !!

Good luck. I'll be interested to hear how you get on if you don't mind updating this thread?

 

[grumpyoldman]

Will do

Thanks

 

[grumpyoldman]

solved!

Thank you

Took the legal route

Nice and speedy-well worth the fee- we agreed split with the buyer

Boat now moved to await buyers collection.

 

[ari]

That's great news, well done.

How does that work though? If the Registrar requires a specific Bill of Sale and you don't have it, what does the legal bod bring to the table? A way to get that Bill of Sale or a way around it?

 

[petem]

Indeed, would be great if the OP could tell us who helped him and what the solution was.