Kukri
Well-Known Member
Do you think I am a bullshitter?
FB Cooke, probably another bullshitter:
FB Cooke, probably another bullshitter:
Fin aground on a sandbank.... actions?
- Thread starter Yellow Ballad
- Start date
Kukri
Well-Known Member
Admiralty Manual of Seamanship, 1937, well known bunch of incompetent bullshitters:
Kukri
Well-Known Member
You are spared Eric Hiscock simply because I have put my copy somewhere sensible and I can’t find it.
But when you have rowed out your anchor and come to the end of your warp (so far, we agree) whilst I would simply slip the knot and drop the anchor where I want it, you will ship your oars, kneel down in the (hopefully dry) bottom of the dinghy and struggle to heave your anchor over and, whilst this is going on, your dinghy, particularly if it is a soft bottom inflatable, will have been carried yards from where you wanted your anchor to be...
But when you have rowed out your anchor and come to the end of your warp (so far, we agree) whilst I would simply slip the knot and drop the anchor where I want it, you will ship your oars, kneel down in the (hopefully dry) bottom of the dinghy and struggle to heave your anchor over and, whilst this is going on, your dinghy, particularly if it is a soft bottom inflatable, will have been carried yards from where you wanted your anchor to be...
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Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
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Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Just remind me on this one.
The majority of owners do not have a kedge (Ok! a couple of racing boats I sailed on had one- I did, but do not now) so that means using the main anchor. So let's look at your nice little picture in #81
Incidentally, I will ignore the stupid comment about 1cwt fisherman's anchors off pram dinghies as an over zealous remark. I am sure that, on reflection, you could not imagine the average sailor on the east coast doing that.
Now you want to hang the anchor, attached to a warp, off the back of the dinghy & row out to a point somewhere suitable to drop.
So with the boat healing over, SWIMBO having kittens, you are going to lift the anchor off the bow roller where 50% of people keep it (did a quick tot up in the marina today) back through the pulpit, Unshackle it, hand it down to you in the dinghy which you must NOT stand up in- you said so yourself- without dropping it in the oggin. Then with a line attached you row out, drop the anchor by releasing the slip knot (as shown in the drawing) & row back to attach to the boat via the bow roller & on to the anchor winch; if you have one. Actually - tell me how on my rubber dinghy I should fix the anchor to the stern?
Then when you do get off the sandbank you are going to re attach the anchor to the chain, poke it through under the pulpit & attach it to the bow roller.Coil the warp & finally wash the east coast mud off the deck. Uggh
Well that was easy wasn't it
Now, the alternative, is to get in the dinghy with the tide racing out. Get it round to the bow- Now DON'T STAND UP- you said so yourself.
Lower the anchor so it lines up with the stern of the dinghy, which is waving about in the tide. Lower the anchor to the correct height. DO NOT put it into the dinghy- you said so yourself. Somehow, find a way of fastening it to the back of the rubber dinghy, so that it does not fall, but can be released when required. Then feed the chain into the dinghy- one handed because you are holding the dinghy in place & YOU MUST NOT STAND UP- you said so yourself
Then row out feeding chain etc & then drop the anchor, although hanging flukes down will absolutely provide NO DRAG whatsoever - well you said a 1cwt fisherman's did not, so a weeny Bruce would not - or would it?
Come on Minn wake up - have you ever run aground & tried it.
Have you ever dealt with a panicking SWIMBO, when the boat starts to heal & the kettle, 3 or 4 pans & a bowl suddenly crash from the galley onto the floor.
The last thing you worry about is faffing about tying on the b..y anchor like sailors did, when some dated square rigger ran aground in 1601.
Wait until slack tide for 2 reasons, first you can see where the land might be & have a prod with the boat hook first. Second you have better chance of rowing without having to beat the tide. One gets the dinghy under the bow: drops the anchor straight in, as neatly as poss. Rows out (assuming that there is some water to row in) dropping the chain as one goes..
When at the end, roll onto ones knees & lob the anchor over the stern.
Simple.
Forget all those old books, they are just fireside entertainment for the winter. You might as well read about the Kon Tiki.
The majority of owners do not have a kedge (Ok! a couple of racing boats I sailed on had one- I did, but do not now) so that means using the main anchor. So let's look at your nice little picture in #81
Incidentally, I will ignore the stupid comment about 1cwt fisherman's anchors off pram dinghies as an over zealous remark. I am sure that, on reflection, you could not imagine the average sailor on the east coast doing that.
Now you want to hang the anchor, attached to a warp, off the back of the dinghy & row out to a point somewhere suitable to drop.
So with the boat healing over, SWIMBO having kittens, you are going to lift the anchor off the bow roller where 50% of people keep it (did a quick tot up in the marina today) back through the pulpit, Unshackle it, hand it down to you in the dinghy which you must NOT stand up in- you said so yourself- without dropping it in the oggin. Then with a line attached you row out, drop the anchor by releasing the slip knot (as shown in the drawing) & row back to attach to the boat via the bow roller & on to the anchor winch; if you have one. Actually - tell me how on my rubber dinghy I should fix the anchor to the stern?
Then when you do get off the sandbank you are going to re attach the anchor to the chain, poke it through under the pulpit & attach it to the bow roller.Coil the warp & finally wash the east coast mud off the deck. Uggh
Well that was easy wasn't it
Now, the alternative, is to get in the dinghy with the tide racing out. Get it round to the bow- Now DON'T STAND UP- you said so yourself.
Lower the anchor so it lines up with the stern of the dinghy, which is waving about in the tide. Lower the anchor to the correct height. DO NOT put it into the dinghy- you said so yourself. Somehow, find a way of fastening it to the back of the rubber dinghy, so that it does not fall, but can be released when required. Then feed the chain into the dinghy- one handed because you are holding the dinghy in place & YOU MUST NOT STAND UP- you said so yourself
Then row out feeding chain etc & then drop the anchor, although hanging flukes down will absolutely provide NO DRAG whatsoever - well you said a 1cwt fisherman's did not, so a weeny Bruce would not - or would it?
Come on Minn wake up - have you ever run aground & tried it.
Have you ever dealt with a panicking SWIMBO, when the boat starts to heal & the kettle, 3 or 4 pans & a bowl suddenly crash from the galley onto the floor.
The last thing you worry about is faffing about tying on the b..y anchor like sailors did, when some dated square rigger ran aground in 1601.
Wait until slack tide for 2 reasons, first you can see where the land might be & have a prod with the boat hook first. Second you have better chance of rowing without having to beat the tide. One gets the dinghy under the bow: drops the anchor straight in, as neatly as poss. Rows out (assuming that there is some water to row in) dropping the chain as one goes..
When at the end, roll onto ones knees & lob the anchor over the stern.
Simple.
Forget all those old books, they are just fireside entertainment for the winter. You might as well read about the Kon Tiki.
lw395
Well-Known Member
It's many years since I've done this.
The things I remember are:
The dinghy will move a long way while you faff with anything.
The catenary effect of any weight of chain exerts a huge pull on the dinghy.
The drag of current going across the rode exerts a huge pull on the dinghy.
ISTR the thing that worked was having the anchor suspended from the transom of the dinghy, along with the short length of chain. The endof the chain is brought back to the transom.
A light rode goes from the chain to the yacht and is kept out of the water by holding it high on the yacht. I think we ran it through the kite halyard snap shackle up the mast.
You need to get a lot of kedge warp out. When you start winching on it, the kedge will move towards the boat.
If you must play this stupid game, I'd suggest a good motor on the dinghy, a Fortress anchor and a 220m roll of polyshit lorry string.
Generally best to have proper passage plans and whatever it takes to not go there in the first place.
It does not take much to trash a yacht on its side on the ground. If you're a failure in pilotage, a rising tide is your best friend. Possibly your only friend.
The things I remember are:
The dinghy will move a long way while you faff with anything.
The catenary effect of any weight of chain exerts a huge pull on the dinghy.
The drag of current going across the rode exerts a huge pull on the dinghy.
ISTR the thing that worked was having the anchor suspended from the transom of the dinghy, along with the short length of chain. The endof the chain is brought back to the transom.
A light rode goes from the chain to the yacht and is kept out of the water by holding it high on the yacht. I think we ran it through the kite halyard snap shackle up the mast.
You need to get a lot of kedge warp out. When you start winching on it, the kedge will move towards the boat.
If you must play this stupid game, I'd suggest a good motor on the dinghy, a Fortress anchor and a 220m roll of polyshit lorry string.
Generally best to have proper passage plans and whatever it takes to not go there in the first place.
It does not take much to trash a yacht on its side on the ground. If you're a failure in pilotage, a rising tide is your best friend. Possibly your only friend.
Kukri
Well-Known Member
I’ve just given you three pages of Bill Tilman describing me laying out a 1 cwt fisherman from a pram dinghy in a strong tide on the east coast of Spitsbergen in 1974, and you write:
“Come on Minn wake up - have you ever run aground and tried it.”
???
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Wansworth
Well-Known Member
Sailed an engine less 27 footer kedge kept attached to kedge line which was on a reel ,chuck anchour in dinghy and row furiously ,,drop anchour.Rope on a drum pays out without hitches and snarl ups
Seajet
...
We were trundling down Emsworth Channel one day - for those who don't know it, about 300 yards wide with soft mud either side, but very hard hazards beside Chichester entrance first - when we saw a friends' 35' heavily built boat high up on the mud.
We lifted the keel and went up, he was fuming ballistic rooty tooty angry, had taken a charter party to Cherbourg returning in quite stiff weather - the autohelm packed up and they refused to help steer ( when we arrived they were sitting glum with arms folded, prats ), he had to do it all himself and was exhausted by the time he reached Chichester in the early morning, then a channel marker light was out and that was him stuffed.
We laid out his big kedge from the A22 towards the channel and helped dig a trench for the keel with four bamboo canes as a guidance transit like the new aircraft carriers have in Portsmouth ( amazing what people have aboard ).
We dumped all the fresh water and took the useless punters off, then when the tide rose he winched furiously on the kedge warp, I seriously saw smoke or steam coming off the winch, he's a big strong guy - anyway it worked and the boat reversed along the trench into clear water.
We lifted the keel and went up, he was fuming ballistic rooty tooty angry, had taken a charter party to Cherbourg returning in quite stiff weather - the autohelm packed up and they refused to help steer ( when we arrived they were sitting glum with arms folded, prats ), he had to do it all himself and was exhausted by the time he reached Chichester in the early morning, then a channel marker light was out and that was him stuffed.
We laid out his big kedge from the A22 towards the channel and helped dig a trench for the keel with four bamboo canes as a guidance transit like the new aircraft carriers have in Portsmouth ( amazing what people have aboard ).
We dumped all the fresh water and took the useless punters off, then when the tide rose he winched furiously on the kedge warp, I seriously saw smoke or steam coming off the winch, he's a big strong guy - anyway it worked and the boat reversed along the trench into clear water.
graham
Well-Known Member
Some out of the way sandbanks may not have been surveyed for decades or even centuries.No good complaining to Mr Garmin that you didn't have the meter clearance he promised you.
Seajet
...
That's why I always smile when people say lift keels are for ' ditch crawling exploring shallow creeks '
- anyone judging the tide to inches or even a couple of feet is in for a nasty suprise like an abandoned cement mixer - lift keels are usually best for affordable half tide moorings.