Filling plywood bits and veneering...

[martinteeluck]

Hi all,

As part of our DIY refit we've attacked the heads hard ("plumbing" part was horrible!)....anyways, we've removed all of the tired formica with a chisel, chipping away 1cm sq pieces at a time.....that was almost as horrible as the plumbing.....

We're left with exposed ply which is in relatively good condition save for a few gouges and chips (see attched pics) - our intent is to obtain veneer to match our saloon, apply it then varnish.

View attachment 32195View attachment 32193View attachment 32194View attachment 32196View attachment 32192

Some advice we've been given is to mix some epoxy with milled fibreglass to create a paste, fair over the surfaces, sand back and then epoxy the veneer to those surfaces. Our experience with epoxy however has been that it has a very short working life so may not be the best solution for the large areas we have to cover.

Have any of you been through a similar exercise and do you have any ideas, hints, tips or experience to share?

Thanks,
Martin

 

[prv]

If pot life is the only problem, then how about getting some slow hardener instead of the usual fast?

Also use a tray instead of a pot, so you can spread it out (do the mixing in a pot first, then tip into the tray). This lets the heat escape instead of speeding up the reaction, which is the reason you usually end up with a rock-hard pot with a brush welded into it, while the stuff you painted on is still runny.

If you're going to be fairing, investigate some of the sandable fillers like microballoons. I'm not familiar with "milled fibreglass", but it sounds hard and likely to be a nightmare to sand.

Can't comment on whether the overall plan is sensible or not.

Pete

 

[martinteeluck]

Thanks PRV, appreciate you taking the time to respond
Martin

 

[Rigger Mortice]

It's almost impossible to do the job like that as it is very difficult to apply the necessary pressure to get every bit of the veneer to stick properly. Vacuum bagging would be the only satisfactory way, but doing that in situ isn't really practical.

Personally, I'ld rethink the job.

 

[rustybarge]

It's almost impossible to do the job like that as it is very difficult to apply the necessary pressure to get every bit of the veneer to stick properly. Vacuum bagging would be the only satisfactory way, but doing that in situ isn't really practical.

Personally, I'ld rethink the job.

I believe they use Impact adhesive to stick veneer to various sorts of surfaces, but the problem is you have to get the alignment right first time, there's no second chances.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

Veneers are usually applied using a heat activated glue. A hot iron can be used to literally iron it on the substrate. In days gone by animal glues were used. These days modern adhesives are usually used but the basic technique is the same.
It would be very difficult, as you say, using impact adhesive on anything other than small jobs as it would be nigh on impossible to line up adjacent veneers accurately. For that matter it wouldn't be easy to spread an impact adhesive on a delicate veneer. It could be sprayed I suppose

 

[saxonpirate]

Hi all,

As part of our DIY refit we've attacked the heads hard ("plumbing" part was horrible!)....anyways, we've removed all of the tired formica with a chisel, chipping away 1cm sq pieces at a time.....that was almost as horrible as the plumbing.....

We're left with exposed ply which is in relatively good condition save for a few gouges and chips (see attched pics) - our intent is to obtain veneer to match our saloon, apply it then varnish.

View attachment 32195View attachment 32193View attachment 32194View attachment 32196View attachment 32192

Some advice we've been given is to mix some epoxy with milled fibreglass to create a paste, fair over the surfaces, sand back and then epoxy the veneer to those surfaces. Our experience with epoxy however has been that it has a very short working life so may not be the best solution for the large areas we have to cover.

Have any of you been through a similar exercise and do you have any ideas, hints, tips or experience to share?

Thanks,
Martin

Ok... 1.) Forget the epoxy for both filling and gluing. Fill your cracks and gouges with car body filler and make sure they're well sanded flush.

2.) For the large flat areas, make some accurate templates from strips 4mm ply roughly 30mm wide and held together with hot glue. Got a glue gun?
2a) The strips on the locker side can probably be measured and fixed separately.

3.) For the curved vanity unit make a template from card and cut out the door aperture, but not to the exact size. leave an overlap of about 12mm to trim afterwards. Allow a few mm extra at the ends, that again can be trimmed when the curve is formed. Score with a sharp Stanley knife and it will perforate easily. On the curved locker adhere the door aperture first using some small clamps and strips of 9/12mm ply to spread the pressure. Push out the veneer towards the edges and using small gauge panel pins just pin the veneer in place. These can be removed when the glue is dry and filled with the appropriate wood filler. If its teak veneer you are going to be using try to put your holding pins in the darker areas of grain. You won't see the pin holes when the jobs finished. You can use this method on all your surfaces, I've done it hundreds of times and it works.

4.) Use PVA glue and give your work a wash coat with it first as a sealer. You'll have plenty of time to work, but make sure you've got fresh water and some rag handy to clean up in case you get PVA on your decorative finish. It'll show up under your varnish otherwise...

Good luck...

 

[PCUK]

Car body filler will be fine for fairing. Contact adhesive is no problem for veneering, we use it all the time. We also use F3 vinyl flooring adhesive for large areas as it is slow drying and allows easy adjustment. Once complete ensure the whole area is well protected with varnish.

Seems that Saxon and I posted at the same time. Similar methods with different adhesives - so take your choice.

 

[martinteeluck]

Many thanks all, will try some of the above...
Martin

 

[srp]

Two part polyester wood filler plus an orbital sander to get the backing flat. Then iron-on wood veneer http://www.woodveneeruk.co.uk/products.php?cat=Iron on Veneer - I used some of this last month for a cabin table and it is excellent - a perfect glue bond without the lumps and bumps you get with the likes of Thixofix or Evo-stik contact adhesives, and no smell or fumes, very easy to position and adjust the veneer before applying the iron, no need for clamping, and easy to make perfect edge-to-edge joints.

 

[TradewindSailor]

I haven't done much veneering, but I have had success with West Epoxy with colloidal silica to thicken it up ... combed on to a FLAT surface. The veneer is place onto the surface and rolled down (very important). I then used flat boards with bags of rice/sugar to weigh them down. The finish was close to perfect, although I did have a steep learning curve.

One of the problems I had was the veneers were very thin .... 0.7mm .... which doesn't leave much to sand down, hence the need to make sure the surface is flat and that the veneer is rolled down which evens out the glue beneath.

Preparation is 90% of the job.

 

[rustybarge]

Two part polyester wood filler plus an orbital sander to get the backing flat. Then iron-on wood veneer http://www.woodveneeruk.co.uk/products.php?cat=Iron on Veneer - I used some of this last month for a cabin table and it is excellent - a perfect glue bond without the lumps and bumps you get with the likes of Thixofix or Evo-stik contact adhesives, and no smell or fumes, very easy to position and adjust the veneer before applying the iron, no need for clamping, and easy to make perfect edge-to-edge joints.

Those iron on veneers look fantastic.....That's the way to go.

 

[srp]

Those iron on veneers look fantastic.....That's the way to go.

Yes, I've been very pleased with the results when I've used it. As TradeWindSailor says, it is important to make sure the surface is fairly uniform because veneers are so thin - the standard thickness for most seems to be about 0.6mm in the uk, but the iron on veneers give you a consistent glue thickness. The ideal method is to use a vacuum bag press and water resistant pva or aliphatic resin glue, but that's hardly practical in-situ on a boat.