Ferretti 470

Hmm, these new Ferretti windows don't do much for the aesthetics on the smaller boats IMO, it's only on the 630 they start to look good. The loft ladder from cockpit to flybridge seems a bit off the pace these days. It's heavy for a 48 footer at 20 tonnes light, which probably helps in a choppy sea, but 31 kts from 2 x 600 hp is a bit lethargic. It wouldn't be on my list, although i'm sure build quality is usual excellent Ferretti.
 
The 470 is a development of the 430 which became the 460. Not to be confused with the 46 (my boat) which became the 480 which became the 500. Yes I agree with you. I think the new Ferretti minimalist style with big windows and MFI like furniture does not work, at least for me
The ladder from cockpit to flybridge on a Ferretti is always steep because all Ferrettis used to have much more useful internal steps to the flybridge which for some unexplicable reason, Ferretti have dropped on their new models. Yes, Ferrettis are from the brick s***thouse school of boat design. They are heavy for their length. This is partly explained by their wide beam but also their heavy lay up. This does mean they need a lot of power to make them go but they do plough through the rough stuff well. If you see a Ferretti planing, the hull does not rise out of the water as much as a typical Brit boat and they tend to ride a bit flatter too
The 470 wouldn't be on my list either especially as it'll be the thick end of €1m with a few extras and VAT
 
Not one of their better boats imho. I quite like the glass shape, and the aft galley that becomes a kind of bar is clever. But there is acres of horrid exposed gelcoat inside that boat, and useless flybridge ladder, and Ferretti still can't make a helm station sadly. At the lower helm you actually have to get out of your (not very nice) seat to lean forward, just to press the buttons on the nav screens.
 
Yup, the exposed gelcoat is another big change compared to previous models. Older Ferrettis have nice leatherette or alcantara panels with wood accents which look v elegant IMHO but the newer models look like Cranchis inside. Also they've gone to cheap looking unframed locker doors. Almost as if they've been on a cost cutting exercise without actually cutting the prices. Yes, Ferretti have a blind spot about helm design and helm seats, particularly the flybridge ones which have non adjustable flat bases and v low backs. The fly helm on the brand new £1m+ F510 is a joke (a bad one at that).The lower helms tend to be slightly better but nowhere near as good as most Brit helms. On the plus side, viz is usually good due to the one piece windscreens
 
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Ferretti have a blind spot about helm design and helm seats

[/ QUOTE ]Seconded.
But my guess is that there must be some stupid marketing guy driving their choices.
In fact, they are well aware of how a proper pilothouse has to be designed, when they know that the potential owners get also some serious professional involved in the boat selection.
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I'm with Nick on this my thoughts entirely re the windows, they just look too big for the boat, and near vertical steps on a modern fly just doesnt make it.

I'd go for the Azimut equivalent
 
some old Ferrettis where not bad in the helm

old 53 was one of the best to helm from inside excellent IMO and I helmed it a few times, the old 620 was terrible unless you are a 6 fotter to view, 68, 57 was good also

there helm layouts tend to be different to all other boats a bit ship like if you want to say, many british builders go for more car like stations
the flybrige stations are nearly all the same for Ferretti a bit spartan but somehow I dont mind it, the side layout I also find it handy for entering your pontoon/berth
the big windows I like, and also the aft galley, the 460 was a fantastic boat, and I am curious to see if this sells so well
2 items miss here the small dining table to fore and the interior ladder, for this you get the galley and the spatial saloon...
the Azimut 47 is a speechless boat nearly to perfection IMO, and the cockpit is as big as a Ferretti, and I guess you will save 100.000 EUROS with it
 
Old ferretti 53 lower helm one of the best /excellent ? You serious? I'd say it's pants, and on the wrong side of the boat. :-)

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I like it and I'll stick with my guns, after helming one for a few hours, I consider visibility a prime factor and it is excellent IMO

I never capture this wrong good side, LOL for the sea I see it the same, left or right and I dont have issues about it
 
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I never capture this wrong good side, LOL for the sea I see it the same

[/ QUOTE ]C'mon PY, you don't want to give these gentlemen the impression that here in the med we don't care about where other boats are coming from, do you...? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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I like it and I'll stick with my guns, after helming one for a few hours, I consider visibility a prime factor and it is excellent IMO

I never capture this wrong good side, LOL for the sea I see it the same, left or right and I dont have issues about it

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The visibility might be excellent, but the ergonomics are pants. The angle and far-distnace of the nav screens are not good, and there's no decent backrest or support on the seat - how are you supposed to stay comfortable for several hours in big seas? There's room only for one person, not for both a helmsman and a navigator - that's not good in bad visibility conditions

The left/right thing isn't critical in good visibility but at night you want the helm on the right. You need your best sideways visibility to be to starboard

Oh, and there's a nice gap at the left to lose things down and make it all look a bit cheap! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif And 1962 engineering department has all the screwheads showing on the window frames - niiiice! I sometimes wonder if Ferretti is really a premium product... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
lol the screw heads I remember when I sold one to a customer and commented about them
Ferretti told him at the time 1997, if you want a glued windscreen buy an Azimut, but if you have problems with this in a few minutes it is outside and you fit a new one, and they repeated if you ever have problems eh...
IMO it is a premium product for production builder, in some areas they are or where much better then the competition and I mean most of it
unless it us not a less known builder like Uniesse or VZ just to give an example
if you notice the screw there how about most of the British builders which had the screws showing for the fitting of the railings, which where not even flush, I think Targa 40 is still made this way, apart the details which looks horrible IMO a year after you buy it you have water ingrees coming in and you will have to take it all screws out and put them back in with silicone....
Ferretti is spartan in some areas but where it matters most it is a premium product...
 
Yup that's what concerns me about ferretti. They just aren't the BEST engineers. To say that a screwed windscreen can be removed easliy whereas a glued one is difficult is bullshit talk to a customer. If they'd said that to m e they'd have got a rebuttal. Glass bonding glues have been engineered by clever folks who also designed systems to remove the glue. See the auto industry where 1000s of windscreens get changed everyday. Fact is, a bonded glass panel becomes part of the structure, as ferretti now know with the 731 et all hull windows. It's just better engineering, period, and Ferretti were several years behind the competition (including the brits) on this

I don't know what you mean about the targa 40 screws but will take a look next time I see one! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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I don't know what you mean about the targa 40 screws but will take a look next time I see one! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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lol you should know Fairline did this with all range till 2004, I think Targa 40 is left with this defect only as then they changed them all and started to use Italian similar railing assembly
Squadrons started to change slowly with the 52 in 1998, but old Squads till the 55 also had this defect
new Targa have seen the light now, but I would not pay such a premium for bolts being seen on the toe rail and also a thin railing 1.2 cm thick
 
in 1997 Azimut where alone in this, and so the critic of Ferretti was also sales talk and the time they also commented that the st/ess frames gave rigidity to the superstructure
all there arguments are valid from an engineering point of view, not the most modern but I would agree with them
 
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they also commented that the st/ess frames gave rigidity to the superstructure

[/ QUOTE ]Blimey, I wasn't aware that they used a line like that!...
I'd have told them that I'd rather go for a boat whose superstructure doesn't need patches to be structurally sound. And btw, weren't those frames alu?
Anyway.
I must agree with you that Fer actually IS a premium product.
It is as long as there are buyers willing to purchase it at a premium price, period.
Any other definition of "premium product" might be more scientific or technically accurate, but I'm pretty sure that's not what Norberto and his boys are interested in, at the end of the day.
 
no all stainless steel
window frames for Ferretti have always been like that for ages, my friend who owns a 1988 40 Altura one has also stainless frames

seeing it 20 years later I would say it is a premium product, and also the guy who I sold a new 53 1998 built 19 years later she is better then ever
the price is high for Fer, but as you say as long as his buisness is good
the production number at Ferretti is also lower then other builders building 100 a year more or less, compared to the 300 other builders declare (azimut, ss, princess)
I have been on a 4 year old 590 a month ago and it is a lovely boat
the 510 which replaced the 530 is ok but I miss some elements of the of the 53 in it, Ferretti try to give too much to the market with this boat and forgot a bit what there boats are about
 
Lets settle a few things here because I'm the only one round here who's actually owned a Ferretti /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif The screens on my boat (and I believe the 53) are bonded into their frames not screwed. What you see in the pics are the screws fixing the decorative s/s frame. I believe that the Italians were the first to use bonded windows and I remember reading a report in one of the UK boaty mags rubbishing this method of fixing whilst comtemplating the sight of the screwed frames on my Princess decomposing into a white powder
Whilst I agree that the Ferretti helm designs are generally poor, I consider visibilty to be the most important aspect of helm design and, at least on my Ferretti, that is spot on and I could name a number of Brit boats I have owned which had nicely designed helm stations but lousy viz. I don't like the fact that the helm is on the port side but there are so called 'proper' boats like Nelsons with the helm on the port side too. I would take a lousy helm station on the port side with good viz over a well designed helm on the s/b side with lousy viz any day. Ferretti also fit good sized pantograph wipers with 5 intermittent speeds which are a big plus on the kind of day you're helming from below and the windscreen is a single piece without supports to impede viz. As regards the seat, mine is similar to the 53 and, whilst its not as good as an adjustable Stidd of course, actually its quite comfy when the boat is planing 'coz you can wedge yourself into a corner. Ferrettis are not the kind of boat you drive anyway. You stick them on autopilot, find a comfy speed and sit back. They're also v quiet inside because the engines are generally well aft and Ferretti fit underwater exhausts and proper soundproofing rather than the glued foam you find on Brit boats
As for engineering, this is the kind of stuff Ferretti have fitted to my boat which I've never seen on equivalent sized Brit boats (eg Phantom 46)

Double Racor fuel filters
Remotely operated flaps for air intakes
Changeover valves for using engines as bilge pumps
Underwater exhausts (not just under the bathing platform)
Fuel tank drain with dedicated bilge pump and filter
GRP fuel tank located at CoG with usable inspection hatches
Dripless stern glands
Large size double bilge pumps in engine bay with independent high water alarm
5 bladed props
Spare props with dedicated storage in lazarette
Spare prop shaft with dedicated storage in transom
Remote galley fridge compressor in engine bay with outboard loop

There's loads of other stuff too but this is from top of my head. I can only speak as I find and compared to one of my previous boats, a Targa 48, the engineering is a level above. I'm comparing against used boats a few years old; it could be that the Brit builders have upped their game recently

PS. Be careful how you rubbish the Ferretti 53. It might be my next boat /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Good stuff Deleted User and I agree that your list of Ferretti hardware is top of the pile. Brit boats have some of that gear, but not all. Tis just a shame Fer spoil the whole thing with those helm stations, urgh!

On the chairs thing, they aren't even expensive. I have had 3 Recaros put on the upstairs helm of my Sq. These are the same as the Sq55/70/78 chairs and are wonderfully supportive and comfy. They are bort by Fairline from Recaro, stripped down, anti-rust painted, and re-covered in vinyl or sunbrella to match the rest of the boat, and have a stainless "hoop" fitted where the headrest would go if it were a car, and the total cost is £1150 each. It's just ridiculous for ferretti to skimp on that kind of important thing when it doesn't even cost big money

Ref the glass, ok if it is bonded then great. But fitting a trim piece with screws showing (for which they can't even use the excuse "yeah well it is more easily removed") is still a poor show imho

But yep, that basic engineering you list is top of the league

Why are boats such a compromise eh? Why can't someone make an uber-engineered boat with good helms, chairs, and an inside staircase? :-)

Anyway, tell us more about the new 53 :-)
 
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