Ferreti ipo
- Thread starter jrudge
- Start date
jfm
Well-Known Member
The book finally got covered today Jeremy. At the bottom end of the reduced price range, namely €2/share, implying an enterprise value of under €500 m pre the new money (the offer was €100m of primary)
Pretty disappointing valuation following over two weeks of book building and ultimately a take up from mostly non institutional investors. Compare with the much bigger ipo of eqt couple of weeks ago where the book was covered in 2 hours.
Pretty terrible implied value for princess, the obvious company whose owners want to sell. Will be interesting to see where Ferretti’s share price goes once trading starts in a few days.
A far cry from the Ferretti valuation of €1.7bn in the 2006 candover acquisition.
Next ipo is sanlorenzo, also Milan, unless they get spooked by ferretti’s tough ipo.
Pretty disappointing valuation following over two weeks of book building and ultimately a take up from mostly non institutional investors. Compare with the much bigger ipo of eqt couple of weeks ago where the book was covered in 2 hours.
Pretty terrible implied value for princess, the obvious company whose owners want to sell. Will be interesting to see where Ferretti’s share price goes once trading starts in a few days.
A far cry from the Ferretti valuation of €1.7bn in the 2006 candover acquisition.
Next ipo is sanlorenzo, also Milan, unless they get spooked by ferretti’s tough ipo.
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D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Any particular reason for the poor price? Impending global downturn or something specific with the company or its structure?
MapisM
Well-Known Member
That will be neither here nor there: with such relatively small floating, it won't be so difficult for them to "steer" the price a bit, if they want to.
It's in six months or more that I'm interested to see how it goes, and I wouldn't be shocked to see them go through yet another shameful de-listing.
Frankly speaking, I would have expected a more solid, long term industrial approach from the SHIG folks.
It's sad to see an industry which was invented and expanded by folks like Vitelli (just to name one of the few survivors) taken over by bean counters whose main interest (and competence!) is on the best exit strategy.... :ambivalence:
PS:
Actually, that was based on evaluations not much more accurate than those which used to be made for home mortgages, in the same timeframe...
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MapisM
Well-Known Member
Blimey folks, I really must stop giving away my wisdom for free here in the asylum.
Obviously someone in the People's Republic was following this thread, and only a few hours after my last post decided the listing withdrawal.
We all know by now how good those folks are at stealing our ideas, but this is beyond belief!
Obviously someone in the People's Republic was following this thread, and only a few hours after my last post decided the listing withdrawal.
We all know by now how good those folks are at stealing our ideas, but this is beyond belief!
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petem
Well-Known Member
Blimey folks, I really must stop giving away my wisdom for free here in the asylum.
Obviously someone in the People's Republic was following this thread, and only a few hours after my last post decided the listing withdrawal.
We all know by now how good those folks are at stealing our ideas, but this is beyond belief!
Does that make boat builders rather "damaged goods" now?
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Blimey folks, I really must stop giving away my wisdom for free here in the asylum.
Obviously someone in the People's Republic was following this thread, and only a few hours after my last post decided the listing withdrawal.
We all know by now how good those folks are at stealing our ideas, but this is beyond belief!
Mmm, I'm not sure you can take the blame/credit for that! I'm sure the forum is banned in China anyway
Portofino
Well-Known Member
It’s too small and fickle for institutional investors.
The market ( buyers ) number is tiny in terms of unit delivery.
There competition is world wide it’s not a closed shop .
It needs an extraordinary level of management decisions and hands on to turn a profit . If major players leave or are head hunted ......risky .
Every year is a knife edge .
Compare it to say Tampax , female sanity products .
Well 1/2 the population are customers, as each woman menopause’s another girl starts periods , so a captive market .If only 1/2 or less ( development world ) uses them , then there’s a huge growth yet to be penetrated in India, Africa etc etc .
So it’s pretty obvious which business is a better bet of ...
1- Not loosing your initial investment
2- growth with a return .
I don’t see that double security with AN other luxury boat builder .
Anyhow cynics suggest the largest funder wants a quicker exit .
That’s been halted .
I see it as way of acquiring fast capitol to expand further raising revenues etc .
Plan B is continue to grow the business by funding from traditional routes ( more expensive) to generate organic growth .
The products will sell I’ve recently seen them all back to back .
But is the revenue generated on there sales enough to fund the growth plan at the speed they want ??
It’s gonna have to .
The market ( buyers ) number is tiny in terms of unit delivery.
There competition is world wide it’s not a closed shop .
It needs an extraordinary level of management decisions and hands on to turn a profit . If major players leave or are head hunted ......risky .
Every year is a knife edge .
Compare it to say Tampax , female sanity products .
Well 1/2 the population are customers, as each woman menopause’s another girl starts periods , so a captive market .If only 1/2 or less ( development world ) uses them , then there’s a huge growth yet to be penetrated in India, Africa etc etc .
So it’s pretty obvious which business is a better bet of ...
1- Not loosing your initial investment
2- growth with a return .
I don’t see that double security with AN other luxury boat builder .
Anyhow cynics suggest the largest funder wants a quicker exit .
That’s been halted .
I see it as way of acquiring fast capitol to expand further raising revenues etc .
Plan B is continue to grow the business by funding from traditional routes ( more expensive) to generate organic growth .
The products will sell I’ve recently seen them all back to back .
But is the revenue generated on there sales enough to fund the growth plan at the speed they want ??
It’s gonna have to .
PowerYachtBlog
Well-Known Member
I think its good that they withdrawn, even as Portofino suggested this was more of a cash injection for the development of further models.
To be fair Galassi was never in favor of this, and I was surprised they called for it.
So somehow we see what the others, as Princess and Sanlorenzo.
To be fair Galassi was never in favor of this, and I was surprised they called for it.
So somehow we see what the others, as Princess and Sanlorenzo.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Short memory, W?
As already discussed here just one month ago, that's not his decision.
Neither it was of NF when he remained in charge after his first buyout back in Schroders years, mind.
But at least that chap did know a thing or three about boatbuilding, in sharp contrast with the current CEO.
Which btw declared today that they are already working on a private placement of up to 30% with "a new European investor", so prepare the popcorn.
Ref. PF suggestion, including his qualification as "cynics" of those who consider this IPO for what it very evidently is (i.e. a Weichai attempt/hope to head towards an exit from a business about which they couldn't care less), well, you must be joking, folks.
You don't seriously think that the current shareholders would have struggled to provide that sort of cash injection, if they wanted to?
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Wow, is it? I wouldn't have thought that the asylum is worth the attention of the Chinese Politburo!
Anyhow, it's hard to believe that their big Corporations can't get round web censorship, in this day and age...
jfm
Well-Known Member
What garbage!
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Not all of it, in fairness.
The comparison between Ferretti and Procter & Gamble made me ROTFL!
Not to mention their respective products involved, luxury yachts and tampax...?!?
I'm not going to think too much about it now, 'cause tomorrow I must wake up early, so I'm heading to bed.
But that's bound to be a good start for some very funny jokes, I reckon!
The comparison between Ferretti and Procter & Gamble made me ROTFL!
Not to mention their respective products involved, luxury yachts and tampax...?!?
I'm not going to think too much about it now, 'cause tomorrow I must wake up early, so I'm heading to bed.
But that's bound to be a good start for some very funny jokes, I reckon!
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Deja vu ,you said that a few years ago when I posted Fairline would go bust shorty after Sealine .
But you never said why they wouldn’t.
So why have Ferretti done this , the rational for the IPO followed by the cancellation ?
Your view is welcome.
Here’s the reason the main share holder doesn’t wasn’t out he wants the group to venture into super yachts , sooner rather than later .Basically he’s playing out a hobby and wants his own Co to build a boat for him .
The CRN brand can and has only gone so far it’s topped out so to speak .
So they need to buy an existing SY player to add to the stable of brands .
What’s does this pic tell you ?
Look carefully at the top LHS , the largest is the current majority investor the “ owner “ He was there with his entourage at the event , infact all of those SY,s sneakily at the end of the Yacht club .
All the staff on there toes so to speak .The guy is passionate about boats , so passionate he bought the company.
I mean why personality attend this event ? Why have a free bar for guests in the Yacht club etc etc .
Why ship in Lionel Ritchie ( Simon le Bon and Elton previous years ) Cannes is just a few days away .
He was walking around fussing like any proud owner of a lovely set of products.
Keen to see potential punters reactions , of the geese that are laying the golden eggs .....the fleet of boats on display .
The T/O of Ferretti is a drop in the ocean compared to his bread / butter businesses,
I don’t think he wants out I think he wants Ferretti group to wade into SY territory as a stand alone and then integrate that brand into the group .The group benefiting from a bit of trickledown star dust .
One day his group will be able to build a boat for him and his friends .The SY ,s at the end all had Chinese on board .
At the moment he owns the biggest majority share of FG and had to go elsewhere for a suitable size boat .
His mates must be ribbing him rotten.
Note just in shot bottom LHS the recently purchase of Wally , a new debut btw .
He’s trying to make the hobby pay but on a large scale .I think we can all identify with that .
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jfm
Well-Known Member
It's very hard to see any logic in what you write Porto. You say "I don't think he wants out" - are you serious? It was he who led the IPO (and there was plenty of secondary offering in the IPO - ie current shareholders trying to sell their shares). He pulled the IPO only due to valuation. Your "mates ribbing him" theory is very twee.Deja vu ,you said that a few years ago when I posted Fairline would go bust shorty after Sealine .
But you never said why they wouldn’t.
So why have Ferretti done this , the rational for the IPO followed by the cancellation ?
Your view is welcome.
Here’s the reason the main share holder doesn’t wasn’t out he wants the group to venture into super yachts , sooner rather than later .Basically he’s playing out a hobby and wants his own Co to build a boat for him .
The CRN brand can and has only gone so far it’s topped out so to speak .
So they need to buy an existing SY player to add to the stable of brands .
What’s does this pic tell you ?
Look carefully at the top LHS , the largest is the current majority investor the “ owner “ He was there with his entourage at the event , infact all of those SY,s sneakily at the end of the Yacht club .
All the staff on there toes so to speak .The guy is passionate about boats , so passionate he bought the company.
I mean why personality attend this event ? Why have a free bar for guests in the Yacht club etc etc .
Why ship in Lionel Ritchie ( Simon le Bon and Elton previous years ) Cannes is just a few days away .
He was walking around fussing like any proud owner of a lovely set of products.
Keen to see potential punters reactions , of the geese that are laying the golden eggs .....the fleet of boats on display .
The T/O of Ferretti is a drop in the ocean compared to his bread / butter businesses,
I don’t think he wants out I think he wants Ferretti group to wade into SY territory as a stand alone and then integrate that brand into the group .The group benefiting from a bit of trickledown star dust .
One day his group will be able to build a boat for him and his friends .The SY ,s at the end all had Chinese on board .
At the moment he owns the biggest majority share of FG and had to go elsewhere for a suitable size boat .
His mates must be ribbing him rotten.
Note just in shot bottom LHS the recently purchase of Wally, a new debut btw .
He’s trying to make the hobby pay but on a large scale .I think we can all identify with that .
Going back to your post that I called garbage, you miss the point of price/ value. Let's say Ferretti is valued at (say) €500m and Proctor and Gamble at €300bn, and you have €100 to invest, and let's say your theory is correct that it is better to buy P+G shares not Ferretti. Now what if the market (having read your post) raises the P+G market cap to €400bn? Are P+G shares still the better place to invest your €100? Of course they are not. So if you write that tampax making is a better business than boat building, therefore the former is the best place to invest, you can never be correct because you have not considered the price of the investment.
Socially questionable things aside (like maybe guns or whatever) there are no bad investments; there are only over priced investments. You are much better investing in an inefficient boat builder at a price that undervalues the business, than in a tampax maker that is over valued. Your pretty picture of Monaco says nothing about whether Ferretti is a good or bad investment per se. It might tell you that Ferretti is a great investment at €500m and a lousy investment at €1.1bn, which evidently is precisely what the Milan stock market and Ferretti's owners both think.
Not sure you see'll my point - the very same company whether boatbuilder or tampax maker can be either a good or bad investment - it just depends on price. So when you write that one is intrinsically good and the other intrinsically bad, that's garbage.
burgundyben
Well-Known Member
Steady on there fella, you've taken out the emotion and looked at it objectively. That'll never do.
jfm
Well-Known Member
Lloydroberts
Well-Known Member
I can't understand how a sanity product and women can be associated.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Yes I agree with the last two paras . But you have not put fwd a theory why ?
Even @ €2 he could get out anyhow and if a loss just offset it against the other profitable stuff he has .
But I still think having seen the guy walking about at his show it’s a hobby and he wants somehow to get FG to build a bigger boat for him and similar friends so why not exhaust the availability of various ways of raising cash .
Obviously if FG have warmed up a take over of a targeted SY builder then and he really wants it to proceed then he’s gonna have to raise the funds by another means , work down the tick box list , on that list somewhere is of course putting you hand into your pocket .
So you guys think he wants out , I think he wants to go larger and involve SY s .An itch that needs scratching
Like all hobby’s he will sell up and pack in , but not yet .
Time will tell .
@ Lloydroberts could be any utility product that can’t be done without by consumers and has growth , hasn’t reached its full potential of sales , Institutional investors like security and safety .
Could be other P+G stuff like toothbrushes.Low tech low cost , low price but huge volumes world wide .
Where as a FG boat what guess 375 units / year with fickle markets effected by too many variables and constant competition nicking sales . Risky place .
Lloydroberts
Well-Known Member
Yes I agree with the last two paras . But you have not put fwd a theory why ?
Even @ €2 he could get out anyhow and if a loss just offset it against the other profitable stuff he has .
But I still think having seen the guy walking about at his show it’s a hobby and he wants somehow to get FG to build a bigger boat for him and similar friends so why not exhaust the availability of various ways of raising cash .
Obviously if FG have warmed up a take over of a targeted SY builder then and he really wants it to proceed then he’s gonna have to raise the funds by another means , work down the tick box list , on that list somewhere is of course putting you hand into your pocket .
So you guys think he wants out , I think he wants to go larger and involve SY s .An itch that needs scratching
Like all hobby’s he will sell up and pack in , but not yet .
Time will tell .
@ Lloydroberts could be any utility product that can’t be done without by consumers and has growth , hasn’t reached its full potential of sales , Institutional investors like security and safety .
Could be other P+G stuff like toothbrushes.Low tech low cost , low price but huge volumes world wide .
Where as a FG boat what guess 375 units / year with fickle markets effected by too many variables and constant competition nicking sales . Risky place .
You miss my point...."sanity" and "women"????? Surely not...lol
