Fender Kickers, yacht sales experiences, get it off your chest here...

[jamie N]

Excellent watercolour. Thanks for posting, I've taken a screenshot and it enlarges well. All I need now is a decent frame!

 

[pretzel_logic]

Spare a thought for those of us who are buying for the first time. We have around £50k to spend and have contacted a number of brokers in Greece (including the one selling the charter company Sail Ionian boats). We can travel out there at the drop of a hat and have identified a few boats we want to view (and would rather combine a trip with as many viewings as possible). However thus far no-one has bothered to get back to us despite filling in the contact form then emailing directly.

Any advice? We are serious purchasers having recently sold a share and now want to commit to our own boat and have cash but it seems that we are being ignored. I'm guessing £50k is seen as pretty small fry so it's not worth them spending three minutes replying to an email?

I haven't phoned - partly because of the possibility of a language barrier but also because on most of the broker's sites it says that if you are interested in any of the boats then to fill in the contact form, which I perceive as a first step towards establishing a dialogue.

We did manage to contact one broker back in Sept and actually went out to Greece but they couldn't accommodate any viewings for at least two - three weeks so we didn't get to view any.

Having just bought and sold a house, the estate agents are falling over themselves to communicate with you and conduct viewings. I guess the 1% agent's fee is not quite as valuable for a £50k sailing yacht than for a £500k house. (I have no idea what commission yacht brokers get).

It's very frustrating. I'm glad I'm not trying to sell a boat in Greece!

Any advice to get ourselves taken a bit more seriously?

 

[ProDave]

I'll give you my take, from the buyers point of view.

We had decided on what boat we wanted and it narrowed down to 2 specific make / model of boats, we had viewed and sailed on one locally but it was not for sale but confirmed that was the boat we wanted.

There were 2 for sale in the UK at the time, one with a broker in North Wales. I sent an enquiry "Is is still for sale, if so can you give me an idea if it is ready to sail for a sea delivery or could you advise on a transport company?"

It too them 2 WEEKS to reply "yes still for sale" no other details.

The other was for sale privately, the seller was easy to contact, we went to view it, it needed some work and was not ready for a sea delivery so we agreed a price to reflect the condition and bought it, with road transport. Have been sailing it for 3 years now.

I feel sorry for the first bloke with the lazy broker and wonder if he ever did sell it.

 

[mrming]

Spare a thought for those of us who are buying for the first time. We have around £50k to spend and have contacted a number of brokers in Greece (including the one selling the charter company Sail Ionian boats). We can travel out there at the drop of a hat and have identified a few boats we want to view (and would rather combine a trip with as many viewings as possible). However thus far no-one has bothered to get back to us despite filling in the contact form then emailing directly.

Any advice? We are serious purchasers having recently sold a share and now want to commit to our own boat and have cash but it seems that we are being ignored. I'm guessing £50k is seen as pretty small fry so it's not worth them spending three minutes replying to an email?

I haven't phoned - partly because of the possibility of a language barrier but also because on most of the broker's sites it says that if you are interested in any of the boats then to fill in the contact form, which I perceive as a first step towards establishing a dialogue.

We did manage to contact one broker back in Sept and actually went out to Greece but they couldn't accommodate any viewings for at least two - three weeks so we didn't get to view any.

Having just bought and sold a house, the estate agents are falling over themselves to communicate with you and conduct viewings. I guess the 1% agent's fee is not quite as valuable for a £50k sailing yacht than for a £500k house. (I have no idea what commission yacht brokers get).

It's very frustrating. I'm glad I'm not trying to sell a boat in Greece!

Any advice to get ourselves taken a bit more seriously?

If you haven’t already, try giving Williams & Smithells a call. They’re a UK brokerage who sell boats in Greece. I have no connection, just noticed that their boats are often well presented and described.

 

[pretzel_logic]

If you haven’t already, try giving Williams & Smithells a call. They’re a UK brokerage who sell boats in Greece. I have no connection, just noticed that their boats are often well presented and described.

Thanks. Yes they were the ones who did respond. Unfortunately, in Sept they were very busy so were unable to agree any viewings at all. I'm hoping that this time of year they might be less busy.

 

[Frogmogman]

I'll give you my take, from the buyers point of view.

We had decided on what boat we wanted and it narrowed down to 2 specific make / model of boats, we had viewed and sailed on one locally but it was not for sale but confirmed that was the boat we wanted.

There were 2 for sale in the UK at the time, one with a broker in North Wales. I sent an enquiry "Is is still for sale, if so can you give me an idea if it is ready to sail for a sea delivery or could you advise on a transport company?"

It too them 2 WEEKS to reply "yes still for sale" no other details.

The other was for sale privately, the seller was easy to contact, we went to view it, it needed some work and was not ready for a sea delivery so we agreed a price to reflect the condition and bought it, with road transport. Have been sailing it for 3 years now.

I feel sorry for the first bloke with the lazy broker and wonder if he ever did sell it.

I’m finding this level of indifference too in my quest for a replacement boat. It occurred to me that everyone who contacted me about my boat when I was selling got a reply one way or the other within a few hours at most.

Had I agreed to put my boat on brokerage (which incidentally, over here they were going to charge me a fee of 8%) would my buyers have been as well served? My view was that I would try and sell it privately first, and then if I failed to find a buyer by the end of the summer, I would put it in hands of a broker.

A good test for someone selling through a broker would be to email them through a different account to see what sort of response they get.

 

[sigma38dave]

I'll give you my take, from the buyers point of view.

We had decided on what boat we wanted and it narrowed down to 2 specific make / model of boats, we had viewed and sailed on one locally but it was not for sale but confirmed that was the boat we wanted.

There were 2 for sale in the UK at the time, one with a broker in North Wales. I sent an enquiry "Is is still for sale, if so can you give me an idea if it is ready to sail for a sea delivery or could you advise on a transport company?"

It too them 2 WEEKS to reply "yes still for sale" no other details.

The other was for sale privately, the seller was easy to contact, we went to view it, it needed some work and was not ready for a sea delivery so we agreed a price to reflect the condition and bought it, with road transport. Have been sailing it for 3 years now.

I feel sorry for the first bloke with the lazy broker and wonder if he ever did sell it.

We did the same with our new boat, decided on what we wanted then went shopping.

There were 7 for sale in the UK at the time. 3 ex school boats with too much work required not reflected in the asking which we viewed, one in Scotland and one in Eastbourne that had been modified heavily unfortunately not to our taste so we didn’t view those 2.

There were two in the Hamble within 100 metres of each other and we didn’t even bother to look at one of them as it was at least £20k over the market rate with no real work done to reflect the very optimistic pricing.

We bought the nicely presented, realistically priced example after viewing with the owner for a couple of hours.

He was a really decent bloke and I think from the outset we all knew we weren’t wasting each others time. Viewed Saturday, paid Tuesday, hand over following weekend.

 

[Mark-1]

Spare a thought for those of us who are buying for the first time. We have around £50k to spend and have contacted a number of brokers in Greece (including the one selling the charter company Sail Ionian boats).

Any advice?

Call Sail Ionian direct.

 

[ProDave]

A good test for someone selling through a broker would be to email them through a different account to see what sort of response they get.

Sound advice.

And if they don't respond to your "test" enquiry, tell them so and tell them you have deciided not to use them to sell your boat as their service is not up to standard.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I have bought 2 boats in Croatia, (at least 1300km round trip to view) experience was as follows .... names removed to protect the guilty.

Experience in 2011:

Broker X replied to my E-Mails and said he had a few boats that might interest me. There were photos available but they were modified to remove boat names etc. and blur backgrounds. I asked for detailed photos and didn't get them. Went to see a few of his offerings and he was extremely secretive about where they were actually based ... gave me meeting points and when I turned up, I was asked to sign a contract which basically said if I bought any of the boats he showed me then he was entitled to his commission. Once signed, he took me to the boats. None were suitable so didn't proceed, got serious hassle from him afterwards in terms of pressure to come and see "bargains" that would certainly be gone if I didn't view ASAP. Not a great experience - was useful to see different models and layouts, but I would have been seriously worried about paying any money to him should I find something I liked. Some of them had obvious accident damage which was poorly repaired.

Bach Yachting was fine, none of the nonsense like the other broker, viewings arranged, boats were genuine, broker seemed professional and honest, but he had nothing that appealed.

I ended up buying directly from a charter company, which went fine in the end - agreed to a week long charter of the boat I was interested in, with a refund if I bought it. While I had it on charter I poked around in every nook and cranny, took up floorboards and thoroughly inspected and photographed everything - I even lifted it out to inspect the hull with the agreement of the charter company. I put down a deposit with collection at the end of the season, and gave a detailed list of all the things they needed to fix. End of season came, the items were fixed, but someone had run it aground, cracking the internal grid structure. After initial denial, they accepted my photographic evidence and I was given a sister ship from their fleet at the same price - but with better equipment. Had a few sleepless nights during the process though. Turned out OK in the end, had over a decade of fun with the boat, no major problems but a catalogue of bodges which I fixed over time.

Experience in 2024

This time I wrote to all the charter companies directly, some responded, some put me onto their broker who they used to shift their charter fleet. Collected a list of 8 boats to view and arranged viewings over a long weekend. Also had one boat offered by the broker who sold my last boat, pictures looked good, so I added it to the list. Long story short, my broker came up trumps, boat was a one owner boat, never chartered, in exceptional condition at a reasonable price - was interesting to see the charter boats as a comparison. I was prepared to settle for a well-worn ex-charter having done it once as you can get a lot of boat for the money - and my last one lasted me over a decade. The one-owner boat was gorgeous in comparison so I went with that. This time round, all the brokers involved and the charter companies were honest and straightforward ... it's the luck of the draw at the end of the day.

I have a friend who bought direct from Sail Ionian and he was very happy with his purchase.

Old and new in the same pic ... with the help of Photoshop

 

[sigma38dave]

An update on boat sales at the moment for anyone interested!

I advertised the boat at the end of November, I waited until it was polished, immaculately clean inside and out and emptied of everything personal, all the gear onboard comes with it.

There’s about 35 photos of everything you’d want to see and a description that fills in any blanks.

A pattern is emerging from the enquiries…’Hi, boat looks perfect, when can I come and view?’. These are all sent late on in the evening 11pm onwards.

I reply when I spot them in the morning…’Thanks for your enquiry, I’m flexible with my work so anytime you like with a day or two’s notice is fine, my number is…’

And then that’s it, no further comms.

On Saturday I had a viewing from a couple of Americans who appeared to be on a road trip round the UK stopping off to look at boats around the coastline for a holiday.

They asked for a viewing Saturday by email, I replied within 20 minutes and said ‘Of course shall we aim for 12.30pm?’ No reply until 03.00am on Saturday morning confirming.

I get them on the boat, brief tour of what’s where and then encourage them to have a proper look round without me, under floorboards, bunk cushions etc.

I head back down the ladder and one of them follows me and asks the most bizarre questions.

What make of boat is this? What year is it?
What’s wrong with it?

Then mumbles something about how he doesn’t like the construction of the deck and says something about a dealbreaker.

He hasn’t even been underneath the boat, looks at the keel from about 10 metres away and says ‘the keels been off’.

I said it hasn’t, I knew the first owner and I’m the second and he replies ‘Yes it has’

I asked how he could possibly tell that from here and he went and sat in his car.

Other guy comes down ladder, I ask him how he got on, he says nice but as he’s about 6’8’’ isn’t enough headroom.

I prod him on his sailing experience…none, hasn’t sailed, intending to take the boat to Portugal and learn to sail. Been looking at Contessa 32’s too, not renowned for their headroom I believe.

Other guy starts shouting out the car window, ‘we got to go!’.

Total time spent there 10 mins.

 

[BobnLesley]

I've bought one boat through a broker (W&S in Levkas mentioned earlier, who we too were impressed with) but other attempts/interest were deterred, in a couple of cases actually thwarted, by their brokers.
As a result I've sold both of mine privately: Get it clean/empty, provide extensive and clear 'warts and all' photos and written details and ask a very reasonable price (you can discount the plus VAT broker fee for a start) for a model in that condition. Most 'let's look at boats today/tyre kickers' find their targets through the brokers adverts (more choice in one place) so you minimise those and that discounted/disappointing price you get is offset by the savings in storage, maintenance and buggeration that comes with taking 6 months to shift it. Get it gone and instead spend your time and money sailing the new one.

 

[mrming]

I've bought one boat through a broker (W&S in Levkas mentioned earlier, who we too were impressed with) but other attempts/interest were deterred, in a couple of cases actually thwarted, by their brokers.
As a result I've sold both of mine privately: Get it clean/empty, provide extensive and clear 'warts and all' photos and written details and ask a very reasonable price (you can discount the plus VAT broker fee for a start) for a model in that condition. Most 'let's look at boats today/tyre kickers' find their targets through the brokers adverts (more choice in one place) so you minimise those and that discounted/disappointing price you get is offset by the savings in storage, maintenance and buggeration that comes with taking 6 months to shift it. Get it gone and instead spend your time and money sailing the new one.

@xyachtdave ‘s boat is spotless and well described so I think it’s just a case of waiting for a genuine buyer to a appear.

 

[Stemar]

Buying was easy. Our first boat, a Snapdragon 24, we visited with a friend who knew his way around boats, He couldn't see anything seriously wrong, Madame approved, so that was that. The second one belonged to a friend in our club, and he - and, perhaps, more importantly, his wife - wanted us to have it, and Madame approved, so we negotiated a price that left us both reasonably dissatisfied, and that was that.

Selling the Snappy was also pretty straightforward. An ad in Apollo Duck got a couple of bites, one guy turned up and, after poking around, he said, "She fits me like an old jumper", and took her away a few days later.

 

[benjenbav]

There’s an enduring narrative on here that brokers are lazy, lacking in knowledge and uninterested in anything bar their fee.

And yet, what you get with a broker is not having to deal directly with the thieves, time wasters and crazies who are out there in ever increasing numbers.

Like most things in life, I guess, you pays your money and takes your choices.

 

[mrming]

There’s an enduring narrative on here that brokers are lazy, lacking in knowledge and uninterested in anything bar their fee.

And yet, what you get with a broker is not having to deal directly with the thieves, time wasters and crazies who are out there in ever increasing numbers.

Like most things in life, I guess, you pays your money and takes your choices.

I would say that’s over simplifying - there are good and bad brokers, and in this very thread one has been given positive feedback. You’re right about not having to deal with tyre kickers though.

 

[gjgm]

There’s an enduring narrative on here that brokers are lazy, lacking in knowledge and uninterested in anything bar their fee.

And yet, what you get with a broker is not having to deal directly with the thieves, time wasters and crazies who are out there in ever increasing numbers.

Like most things in life, I guess, you pays your money and takes your choices.

Yes, I am sure there are some lousy brokers, as with anything else, but I don't buy into the image they have their feet on the desk all day reading Insta. I guess they only have so many hours in a day, and not all their boats are outside their office. I might imagine with adverts embedded with ' contact the dealer" they get an awful lot of pointless enquiries, and it is equally pointless to reply!! I am possibly the same. Click to enquire when you are vaguely interested or phone if you are really interested and find out more.
It isn't just brokers re marine,tho. It is often very hard to get hold of your mechanic, polishing guy, grp guy and everyone else!

 

[sigma38dave]

If I get the time wasting vibe again I’m going to through a piece of rope at them and say ‘just tie me a sheep shank’ in the style of Quint from Jaws.

 

[benjenbav]

I would say that’s over simplifying - there are good and bad brokers, and in this very thread one has been given positive feedback. You’re right about not having to deal with tyre kickers though.

Not denying there are good brokers. I was really commenting on themes that appear on this forum generally rather than names mentioned on this thread.

Personally, I’ve had mostly good experiences with brokers both buying and selling. Always, I’ve appreciated their role as a filter.

 

[Jim4244]

Ah, the 'offshore for a few weeks' buyer... a familiar face in the second hand boat world!

Hope it goes well.

I'm just coming up to the end of a 5 week hitch on a land rig in Africa and am in the market for a 40' flybridge. Have seen 3 boats (all with brokers) and while 2 have been very helpful 1 has been totally unresponsive to 3/4 emails. I have explained to all 3 brokers that I am working overseas and have given the dates that I will be back in the UK on leave. Guess which boats I will be viewing when I get back to the UK next week?

Never discount offshore workers...