feedback on MAN 2866 le401 marine engine

should be good for go ?
is it that Sarnico 45 ?

for LS do they all use the same liner supplier ?? -the engine makers

my boat started with 2866 in 2001 and in 2003 the same people RT based in Roma fitted 2876

from 590 to 700 hp

broker told me owner fancied more hp
 
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Well, 'fiuaskme, I would not even consider rebuilding a perfectly working 850 hours engine with no reason.
Btw, in fairness, Tonissi has a very good reputation.
It was just the idea that having one broken engine could make a failure of the other one "statistically impossible" that made me laugh a bit... :)
 
FWIW
last year our MAN service guy in Tivat has rebuild a similar 6cylinder engine from a police boat.
the cause for a cylinder cracking was reported to be from rain water leaking through the deck on the air filter during navigation, and being sucked into the engine.
this happened after a repair / modif on the grp deck.
there was a tough dispute with the yard who did that repair
 
No wonder that I was permanently at war with distributors always screaming for warranty without adequate failure analyses ..........I have never heard so much caca in my life!

Last time I heard of liner 'cracking' it was an a Harland & Wolff B&W 110 rpm 10,000 hp opposed piston two stroke in the 1970's. To simply state that it is a not unknown for early life failure of liner which also occurring in other makes is total nonsense.

High speed diesel engine liner should be centrifugal spun-cast ductile iron, known wet liner problems are primarily cavitation corrosion which can lead to cracking and liner seat beat in leading to loss of protrusion and head gasket failure, however these are very high hour failure modes, not early life failures.

I am still at a loss to understand if original issue was not fueling related why pump and all injectors replaced, in addition replacing all liners and I assume rods was another symptom of not understanding mode of failure and lack of confidence in base motor. Poor old owners certainly get 'creamed'. As MAN dealer was so glib about the liner issue not being unknown I would have suggested making a claim on M.A.N for a policy contribution toward repairs that would have had the over repair clowns running for their tin hats!

Unexplained liner cracking smacks of my most hated term 'indeterminate failure'. There is always a cause of any failure, sometimes it can be very difficult to discover, however it is there, and not bottoming out true cause will ultimately bite you again.

As to BartW's quoted case of water injestion, simple hydraulic lock splitting the liner we have to assume on start up if true would have questioning general robustness of the base motor. However without true facts 'dock talk' as they call it in the U.S. can be damaging.
 
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+1 to all that. Materials don't actually fail. My kilo of a steel alloy (processed with a certain grain structure and in a certain shape) behaves exactly the same as your kilo of the same alloy with the same grain structure and shape. There is nothing random about it at all, so there has to be a cause other than material failure. Furthermore a liner failure by fracture is incredibly rare and there is invariably some other cause

Hence this part of the boker's response is nonsense:

cylinder liner (I guess the one closer to the turbo) got cracked.
This might happen due to many reasons (the most believable is a material failure).
They always says this should not happen other then after 5000-6000 hrs (!) but in the reality, as former sales manager from a big Italian distributionship (Princess Yachts, Viking, Luhrs, Rodman, SESSA etc over the years) I would say that I faced similar failure on even 200-300 hrs engines (whether MAN, MTU, VOLVOS etc.). Some client was lucky to get it over first few hours/years and then covered by the warranty, somebody else not.. (!)​
 
jfm said:
+1 to all that.
Click to expand...
+2.
And FWIW, I'm rather skeptic that what these explanations were actually given by Tonissi (the MAN IT distributor).
More than likely "elaborated" somehow by the broker, at a guess.
 
thanks to all who responded
shall i just walk away ? or do i need to delve deeper , maybe contact MAN
can it be sorted ?
what would you do in my shoes
regards
andre
 
admillington said:
Run
Click to expand...
If you're suggesting that just because of some broker BS, I'm afraid meracus should run away from 98% of brokerage boats... :)

In his boots, I'd try to get in touch directly with whoever did the job and ask them about what was done exactly and why - maybe cross checking the results of these investigations with our resident experts.
But generally speaking, I don't think a boat whose engines never gave any troubles would be a much safer choice per se, AOTBE.
That said, my 2c for meracus if he likes the boat (and I can see why: she's among the best in its segment, imho), is to look around and check if by chance there's one for sale with Cat or Cummins engines, which IIRC were also offered by Sarnico.
Just a thought - good luck anyway, and keep us posted!
 
MapisM said:
If you're suggesting that just because of some broker BS, I'm afraid meracus should run away from 98% of brokerage boats... :)

In his boots, I'd try to get in touch directly with whoever did the job and ask them about what was done exactly and why - maybe cross checking the results of these investigations with our resident experts.
But generally speaking, I don't think a boat whose engines never gave any troubles would be a much safer choice per se, AOTBE.
That said, my 2c for meracus if he likes the boat (and I can see why: she's among the best in its segment, imho), is to look around and check if by chance there's one for sale with Cat or Cummins engines, which IIRC were also offered by Sarnico.
Just a thought - good luck anyway, and keep us posted!
Click to expand...
+1. Yup, super boat, super shipyard. There are Cat versions listed for sale on yachtworld - I think there are maybe a dozen of this model for sale, mostly MAN but some Cats
 
MapisM said:
If you're suggesting that just because of some broker BS, I'm afraid meracus should run away from 98% of brokerage boats... :)

In his boots, I'd try to get in touch directly with whoever did the job and ask them about what was done exactly and why - maybe cross checking the results of these investigations with our resident experts.
But generally speaking, I don't think a boat whose engines never gave any troubles would be a much safer choice per se, AOTBE.
That said, my 2c for meracus if he likes the boat (and I can see why: she's among the best in its segment, imho), is to look around and check if by chance there's one for sale with Cat or Cummins engines, which IIRC were also offered by Sarnico.
Just a thought - good luck anyway, and keep us posted!
Click to expand...

I tend to agree with you. Speaking personally, I would view the fact that a boat of this age effectively has one new engine as an advantage, not a disadvantage, but only providing I understood as well as I could why that engine failed. If I was in the OP's shoes I would be talking to the MAN agent in Genoa who did the work to try to find out every detail of what they did and why, before dismissing the boat out of hand especially if in other respects its an attractive boat
 
Yup, all agreed.
But just for the records, my understanding based on post #18 is that it wasn't Tonissi in Genoa who directly did the job.
They were only contacted (allegedly) by the broker to fetch some explanations, but the work was done by "one of their authorized dealers". And it's with these folks that I'd try to talk.
Apropos, I meant to say to meracus: if you know who they are, and you think that ringing them and try to investigate a bit using the same language could help, feel free to ask.
 
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thank you all , i have spoken again to the broker asking him how we could work in insuring that all goes well , im scheduling an intial visit followed by a survey visit within january , and fingers crossed i will be proudly posing whilst twisting my imaginary moustache on a gleaming sarnico come the summer ..... happy days
 
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