Fear of going over the side!!!!

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For that reason every time I go on deck I try to imagine that the water is a 10,000ft vertical drop over a cliff, and try to behave as I would as if suffering from vertigo on the edge of a precipice, bearing in mind that the water is probably even more dangerous than such a precipice would be. This encourages me to proceed with caution, often on hands and knees, always attached to some handhold.

Not a perfect solution perhaps, but an attitude I think more likely to save me than wearing a lifejacket floating in an empty sea.

I like this, Don't mind if I borrow it in safety brief do you?


AJ /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
Be my guest! Just don't forget to tag it with my © sign /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
i am allways much more aware of the possibility of going over the side when sailing someone elses boat so tend then to wear lifejacket/harness much more.

On your own boat you get a feel for it like an old pair of shoes.You know where to step without looking and how high the boom is etc etc .

My kids allways wear LJs when underway not in the cabin .

Im a great fan of personal freedom and would be saddened by unneccesary rules and regs.

Im not in posession of any facts and figures but it is still a very safe sport.Unfortunately the press gets more lurid headlines out of a boating accident than say for example a jogger suffering a fatal heart attack or cyclist getting hit by a car.

cliftonbridge.jpg
my eldest doesnt seem to mind(much /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif)
 
Everyone on board my boat wears a life jacket.

I'm a big bloke my family will never get me on board should I go over and it'll be down to my own steam to get me aboard so I would appreciate as much flotation assistance as possible.

I've always said to SWMBO should I go over call for help and if you can get to me lash me to the side the best you can.

Whilst I'm waiting for SWMBO to do her best to get back to me I'm positive I'll be appreciating wearing my jacket, bobbing up and down in the knees up position.

I'd be appreciating that not wearing a jacket my situation could be a lot worse I'd attempt to tread water however, that dissipates all my body heat, try to shout, get cold, get cramps, start to pass out and if my luck has run out slip gently under the water when I'll be found 3 days even 3 weeks later depending on the currents bloated and blue.

I'm sure my wife and kids would raise a toast to my "hardness" or to my "20 years of sailing experience" and the sailing wisdom I demonstrated at not needing a bloody 50 quid jacket at my wake.

CH
 
In a similar discussion some time ago I posted that lifejackets are worn all the time on my boat.A poster of considerable nautical experience said this was stupid.I took some trouble to get comfortable lifejackets with built in harnesses & no-one who sails with me has ever complained.I am not saying that I am right just that this is what I do on my boat & when I am on other boats.Each to his own.
 
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I rarely use one too. No doubt that's bad, but I simply find them uncomfortable. I'm considering buying one without an inegrated harness as I think I'd be more likely to use it (I find the weight of the D-ring pulling causing the lifejacket to chafe on the back of my neck uncomfortable).

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I've got a crewsaver 150N slimfit with integral harness and find it as comfortable as could be reasonably expected. A previous lifejacket without the harness always chaffed the back of my neck but no problems with this one, even with the extra weight of a 3 point lanyard attached to it.
 
But I reckon that without the integral harness it would have to be even more comfortable - less weight, less pressure on the back of the neck. I tried 3 of the integrated kinds: Crewsaver, Baltic and Secumar (sp?). For me, a separate dedicated harness is more flexible, and means I actually WEAR the thing.

I don't like the 3 point line for the same reason - extra weight round the neck, also slow to use. Probably better for survival conditions though. I find the elasticated lines very convenient cos they're light and can dangle from my chest without even noticing it and no risk of tripping over it (with consequent dive overboard?)

'course: different strokes for different folks, just a personal view.
 
As I said in another post, I have decided that we should wear a l.j. most of the time on my boat. I will probably re think things when SWMBO is more experienced and can do most things in most weather, including pick me up!

As things stand, if I go over I'm endangering my family as well as myself and to me that's unacceptable.
 
Definateley in the dinghy, I believe a couple of people drowned earlier this year in the Bristol Channel. They were rowing going ashore when their dinghy capsized.
 
I did not mean to suggest that you were making up statistics - yours have had, in the past and in your reply, total credibility. It was, rather, that in close juxtaposition, were 3 statistical claims (and my extra one) which appear mutually exclusive.
It seems to me that similar data for the UK should be available and would make a better basis for risk assessment/mitigation than some of the postings on this topic. It reminds me of the arguments for wearing cycle helmets where the readily available statistics showed very few deaths would have been prevented had they been worn.

I had a ~25nm single-handed sail yesterday and found myself getting very frustrated with the lifeline preventing my normal ease of movement (weather here was F3/4 cyclonic - not the wee breeze the south was having). I was probably more at risk from tripping over the thing than anything else but the embarrassment of the boat sailing blithely on without me would have been worse.
 
I am having a few difficulties understanding this thread.

First off, lifejackets are meant to hold the head above water. They are bulky and make it difficult to get close to items. Demonstrated clearly when my wife caught the auto inflation toggle on the way out of the companion way!! We have practised getting on board our yacht from the water in warmer places and it would be impossible with a jacket on to get close enough to roll under the wires. I would have to wait for the ladder or the main sheet to be rigged.

Also, there is the above issue of dinghies and children. I do not know if this is irony that I missed but since seeing it happening in real life, maybe not. Alcohol and dinghies kill. I know of a lot of yachties that have gone in the water and a few that are now dead due the 3Ds: drink and dinghies and the dark. Lifejackets have no effect on the outcome. There was even one that the shopping was on the side of his boat. He must have just slipped while climbing aboard and knocked himself out.

Say a dinghy does sink. Why would the parents need life jackets. Their first task is to get the kids. It is near impossible to swim efficiently with a life jacket. The California tests for life jackets states:

"Swimming Test: The practicability of self-propulsion in the lifejacket shall be proved.
A swimming test shall be made with the lifejacket deflated and a test to show the
practicability of self-propulsion with the lifejacket inflated shall also be made as referred
to in 2.3."

Where self-propulsion is not swimming but forward motion water treading.

Life jackets are a means of keeping a conscious or (auto type) unconscious casualty floating with their mouth clear of water until help comes. As a safety device they require 2 entities. Some one to hold up in the water and some one to come and save the person. Used just to prolong the life of a swimmer when there is no hope of rescue is madness. Wearing them on racing yachts designed for speed were the chances of being picked up is high is sensible. But just thinking that you will be alright because you wear a lifejacket is madness.

As I have said before, we watched a mother scold her kids for not wearing lifejackets on the pontoon. They had come down with her from the car. Once on, she was quite happy to let them play around and run up and down the pontoons and generally get in the way of boats berthing at the end of the weekend. That is what I call the madness of the lifejacket. They give a sense of safety that is not there. They are just one part of the story.
 
The stats are easily available on line. The MAIB report for 2005 gives all the details. On Page 26 it has the stats for non-commercial accidents.

Page 27 has a break down of the causes.
I think "collision" wins followed by "floundering".

(I wonder which navy ship managed to ruin their record?)

http://www.maib.dft.gov.uk/cms_resources/Annual%20Report%202005.pdf

Taking the idea of the cliff further, compare the results of the mountain rescue for England and Wales.

Especially since most of the rest of the world thinks it is a joke that we have a mountain rescue organization in England and Wales. You get ridiculed when referring to UK hills as mountains.

http://www.mountain.rescue.org.uk/publications/2004%20Annual%20Report.pdf

They had an increase of 85% in people getting lost!!!
 
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Hmm
I don't remember seeing it on the Chents cruiise you sanctimonious wee beggar

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That's cos I had you looking after me ya fat git ..and fat floats!
 
Thank you for clarifying that sweetpea - If I'd known you were depending on me I'd have got a bit less pished.
Jings - that puts awfy pressure on Muzzy - he's the only one of us who wears a lifejacket.
 
Thanks for the link. If that is really the extent of accidents then whatever the recreational sailors are doing is not bad. Out of the thousands on the water, 22 deaths in a year ain't worth worrying about - unless it's you or a loved one.

Makes me wonder why the man with the red flag hasn't been reintroduced for cars.
 
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I'm a big bloke my family will never get me on board should I go over and it'll be down to my own steam to get me aboard so I would appreciate as much flotation assistance as possible.


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On my boat there is a boarding ladder which can be lowered from in the water if needed.(Should I ever fall out of the dinghy when boarding or whatever)

Also have lifelines arranged for easy removal,even my 10 year old has some training in how to come back for a mob.12 year old can send a mayday.

Safety is about constantly assesing the risk and doesnt revolve around harnesses and lifejackets .Wearing them all the time reminds me a bit of council gardners wearing hard hats while picking weeds out of flower beds.
 
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