Fatality after boat/PWC collision off Menai Bridge

[Blue Sunray]

You put a smiley on the overtaking rule, but we should all be aware that racing eights and similar vessels can easily reach 10-15 knots, and have limited ability to manoeuvre. Not likely to find one at sea, but tidal rivers and estuaries are possible locations for them.

Indeed, I got abused by one coming up behind me in the Itchen, I was going as fast as I thought appropriate in the river and not that far off the speed limit.

 

[Mei Mac]

There is a petition locally asking for Cyngor Gwynedd (the local county council) to either ban smaller powerboats and/or 'jetski' type craft or impose stricter rules in relation to their use, due to a number of incidents.

On one occasion a man and his nephew were 'swamped' by water after a jet ski repeatedly passed them and splashed them for no apparent reason. A video was widely circulated on the local news and created quite a reaction.

I believe there is a similar move in Penzance and Newlyn, Cornwall to ban such craft.

 

[LittleSister]

It's not patent nonsense. We literally don't know.

We do know that vessels under oars, vessels propelled by machinery and sailing vessels are three distinct classes under the ColRegs.

You put a smiley on the overtaking rule, but we should all be aware that racing eights and similar vessels can easily reach 10-15 knots, and have limited ability to manoeuvre. Not likely to find one at sea, but tidal rivers and estuaries are possible locations for them.

Eights carry a ball on their prow for a very practical and gruesome reason, to do with an overtaking accident!

Indeed. I've overtaken sailing and powered vessels in my sea kayak before now.

Indeed, I got abused by one coming up behind me in the Itchen, I was going as fast as I thought appropriate in the river and not that far off the speed limit.

You could have pointed out to him/her they were the overtaking, and therefore give way/keep clear vessel.

 

[Mark-1]

We do know that vessels under oars, vessels propelled by machinery and sailing vessels are three distinct classes under the ColRegs.

...for the purposes of optional lighting. I agree with your logic, though. We can reasonably infer that the Col regs acknowledge Rowing boats as a discrete craft. (but then ignore them in all but one case.)

It's not conclusive though.

 

[LittleSister]

...for the purposes of optional lighting. I agree with your logic, though. We can reasonably infer that the Col regs acknowledge Rowing boats as a discrete craft. (but then ignore them in all but one case.)

It's not conclusive though.

But they aren't ignored: they're explicitly mentioned (albeit just the once). Therefore all the regs apply to them, except those which specifically apply exclusively to other classes (e.g. the crossing regs for sailing and/or power craft).

Of course it's not conclusive until a relevant court determines it (which is unlikely ever to happen), but we don't wait for that for the rest of the ColRegs.

The ColRegs are deliberately not written in obscure language intelligible only to the cognoscenti. There are only limited ways of interpreting them which are both logical and consistent with the ordinary meanings of the words used.

 

[LittleSister]

the prosecutor screwed up and brought a prosecution under the S. 59 of the Merchant Shipping Act instead, which only applies to "ships". "

But that doesn't mean what you think it means. 'Ship' includes small leisure craft.

Merchant Shipping Act 1995

• c. 21
• PART I
• Section 1

1 British ships and United Kingdom ships.
(1)A ship is a British ship if—
(a)the ship is registered in the United Kingdom under Part II; or
(b)the ship is, as a Government ship, registered in the United Kingdom in pursuance of an Order in Council under section 308; or
(c)the ship is registered under the law of a relevant British possession; or
(d)the ship is a small ship other than a fishing vessel and—
(i)is not registered under Part II, but
(ii)is wholly owned by qualified owners, and
(iii)is not registered under the law of a country outside the United Kingdom.
(2)For the purposes of subsection (1)(d) above—

• “qualified owners” means persons of such description qualified to own British ships as is prescribed by regulations made by the Secretary of State for the purposes of that paragraph; and
• “small ship” means a ship less than 24 metres in length (“length” having the same meaning as in the tonnage regulations).

(3)A ship is a “United Kingdom ship” for the purposes of this Act (except section 85 and 144(3)) if the ship is registered in the United Kingdom under Part II (and in Part V “United Kingdom fishing vessel” has a corresponding meaning).

 

[savageseadog]

To be fair, it's not just the users but the authorities to blame. There are no speed restrictions at Menai Bridge which can be a busy stretch of water on which distraction is easy due to strong currents and eddies. Similarly, the case of the power boat hitting Hamble Point SCM at over 100 knots. Why are those speeds allowed in such places?

I completely agree. I've moored/sailed/cruised there for years. The stupidity of some power craft users is unbelievable I've nearly been thrown out of my dinghy by power boat wash. There is a speed limit enforced actively further SW down the Strait at Port Dinowic (Yfelinheli), why there isn't a limit at the very busy Menai Bridge I don't know.

 

[TSB240]

There is a petition locally asking for Cyngor Gwynedd (the local county council) to either ban smaller powerboats and/or 'jetski' type craft or impose stricter rules in relation to their use, due to a number of incidents.

On one occasion a man and his nephew were 'swamped' by water after a jet ski repeatedly passed them and splashed them for no apparent reason. A video was widely circulated on the local news and created quite a reaction.

I believe there is a similar move in Penzance and Newlyn, Cornwall to ban such craft.

Thanks for bringing it back closer to topic.
A ban would be very hard to enforce and would penalise a large group of water users unfairly. Jetskis get a bad press but many other powered craft can be just as badly operated.
Gwynedd county Council and its puppet Caernarfon Harbour Trust have little to no control over all launching sites. They have 1 patrol rib that has not been out from Caernarfon this year. A properly enforced craft identification and registration scheme might help if it was combined with rigid controls at registered launch sites and on water observation at locations controlled by either local speed limit bylaws or harbour authority navigation requirements.

 

[Blue Sunray]

You could have pointed out to him/her they were the overtaking, and therefore give way/keep clear vessel.

Really? Funny old thing but they do cover that just a little at Warsash , but thank you for confirming all that teaching..

 

[TSB240]

I completely agree. I've moored/sailed/cruised there for years. The stupidity of some power craft users is unbelievable I've nearly been thrown out of my dinghy by power boat wash. There is a speed limit enforced actively further SW down the Strait at Port Dinowic (Yfelinheli), why there isn't a limit at the very busy Menai Bridge I don't know.

The speed limit marks at Felinheli are non existant as is the CHT(Gwynedd CC) regular enforcement patrol this year!

North of the bridges is bandit territory where in theory there is a requirement for a no wake speed if you are within 50 m of any other craft, shore or moored boat. This area and its launching sites are controlled by Angelsey CC. Totally unenforceable without having an on water presence.
Breached by the professional rib ride boats on a regular basis.

 

[Mark-1]

But that doesn't mean what you think it means. 'Ship' includes small leisure craft.

I was quoting someone else. I'm pretty sure they're right and I think you might be missing the point of Goodwin.

 

[Mark-1]

Therefore all the regs apply to them, except those which specifically apply exclusively to other classes (e.g. the crossing regs for sailing and/or power craft).

Yup. That would be the most plausible guess AFAIC, on that specific question.

 

[JumbleDuck]

The ColRegs are deliberately not written in obscure language intelligible only to the cognoscenti. There are only limited ways of interpreting them which are both logical and consistent with the ordinary meanings of the words used.

They're a mess; obscure, full of contradictions and inapplicable to many common situations. Or at least no more applicable than the Rule 2 catch-all of "sort it out yourselves", which is a fat lot of use. Unfortunately I gather that rewriting them would require the agreement of many nations, so it's unlikely to happen.

 

[shaunksb]

Going back the the OP and reading between the lines of what I know it’s possible that the person on the ski was another family member, if that’s the case then it’s tragic for them.

I‘m beginning to see that too which does make the whole thing even more tragic.

_____________________

 

[dom]

Unfortunately I gather that rewriting them would require the agreement of many nations, so it's unlikely to happen.

Spot on, coupled with the somewhat hopeful belief that a version of caselaw might gradually clarify the ambiguities. A process which kind of works for shipping companies but only further complicates the position of those wishing to view the IRPCS as constitutional law.

 

[Tomahawk]

Kevin Walker has posted on the North Wales FB website
Perhaps we should all respect his wishes.
Rip Jane.

"Some of you people on here are relentless. Do not make this tragic accident an excuse to promote your anti Jetski campaign. This beautiful lady, my wife, was also a jet skier so try having some respect rather than promoting your own bias. Yes there are idiots about, on skis, boats, & cars. I don’t hear you all campaigning to give your cars up. None of you know what happened, and occasionally, just like on the roads, tragic accidents happen. Also don’t presume the people involved don’t know the Strait. Some of you need to get off your keyboards and get a life. This tragic accident has changed my families life for ever, but try and have some respect and stop twisting it to your own agenda when you all know nothing about the incident."

I am minded to take note of what the widower says..
His wife is dead.
He is asking people to can it.

 

[Mark-1]

I am minded to take note of what the widower says..
His wife is dead.
He is asking people to can it.

He isn't. He's asking people to stop "twisting it" to 'promote an anti-jetski campaign'. Even if he had asked people to stop talking about it most of the current discussion on this thread isn't about the incident at all. We digressed long ago. (All of that assumes that it's valid for someone involved in a tragedy to require everyone else to stop discussing it. Not everyone will think it is.)

 

[Lucky Duck]

What was said was all perfectly understandable - but for insight into what his position might have been had it been an incident with a third party we could note the campaign run by the parents of the girl of drowned while on a speedboat travelling at high speed on the Thames with somebody she had met on a date.

 

[Stemar]

May I suggest that we respect the gentleman's wishes and leave this thread to express condolences. Rants of all flavours can be continued elsewhere.

 

[vyv_cox]

The speed limit marks at Felinheli are non existant as is the CHT(Gwynedd CC) regular enforcement patrol this year!

North of the bridges is bandit territory where in theory there is a requirement for a no wake speed if you are within 50 m of any other craft, shore or moored boat. This area and its launching sites are controlled by Angelsey CC. Totally unenforceable without having an on water presence.
Breached by the professional rib ride boats on a regular basis.

Years ago we were drinking in The Gazelle, where we met two young guys who we realised were motorboaters. They were going to Abersoch on the following day. We asked when they would be returning, to which the answer was 'tomorrow afternoon'. We put this down to inexperience but were amazed to see them set off next day in a large speedboat, doing an estimated 30 knots towards the bridges. They came back at the same speed that afternoon.