Fancy jet rib vs practical tender

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kcrane

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Having emotionally committed to buying a boat, I've already started thinking about the extras and toys.

At the shows there isn't a garage that hasn't had a Williams pushed in, and the sale guys comment on how much fun they are and how we'll certainly need one.

Um, thinks back....

When we had the catamaran we had a new Lodestar with a 9.8 Tohatsu. Not a flash thing, but for the first 12 months it was shiny and clean and stood out like a sore thumb when you pootled in off the swinging moorings for a night in Yarmouth or amongst the throng outside the Folly.

We tied it up with a long steel wire and a padlock, and used a substantial outboard lock, but it would have been more than easy to cut the wire and just row it away. No-one ever did mind you.

So what do you do with a £20k Williams? Is it a practical way to get to shore in the UK? A blast around the bay a couple of times would be great, but would it be more sensible to have a secondhand rib with a slightly tatty 5-10hp o/b on the back?
 
kcrane said:
Having emotionally committed to buying a boat, I've already started thinking about the extras and toys.

At the shows there isn't a garage that hasn't had a Williams pushed in, and the sale guys comment on how much fun they are and how we'll certainly need one.

Um, thinks back....

When we had the catamaran we had a new Lodestar with a 9.8 Tohatsu. Not a flash thing, but for the first 12 months it was shiny and clean and stood out like a sore thumb when you pootled in off the swinging moorings for a night in Yarmouth or amongst the throng outside the Folly.

We tied it up with a long steel wire and a padlock, and used a substantial outboard lock, but it would have been more than easy to cut the wire and just row it away. No-one ever did mind you.

So what do you do with a £20k Williams? Is it a practical way to get to shore in the UK? A blast around the bay a couple of times would be great, but would it be more sensible to have a secondhand rib with a slightly tatty 5-10hp o/b on the back?
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Stand by. In a minute about 500 people will be along to tell you why they bought a jet rib, sold it, and ended up with a 3-4m walker bay rib with a huuuuuuuuuuuuuge outboard on the back. Miles of fun, cheaper, and still the only boat I've driven that wanted to do a wheelie every time you opened the throttle.

Actually, it would be interesting to know if anybody has ever managed to make a jet rib work as a long-term tender.

Cheers
Jimmy
 
kcrane said:
Didn't know I was opening Pandora's box, but I think I can guess which side you come down on!
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Oh no, not at all - I've never owned a jet rib. But there are several forumites that have posted here about their experiences of owning one, being disappointed by the cost, weight, reliability - and have then gone (back) to a conventional tender with the outboard. For me, I'm completely constricted by the garage on my T40 - so I have to have a Valiant 2.7m or nothing. However, I do have one of those 9.8 Tohatsu's on the back, which is a small consolation at least... :D

Cheers
Jimmy
 
Jimmy is probably reffering to me and another well known poster on these forums.

We have both had Jet Ribs and I think I speak for others when I say that Jet Ribs are great fun.
The new four strokes are solid fast and stable

But........

If anything should go wrong, they are a pig to repair. (I've only ever had one of the 2 stroke Avons before).
I always like to keep all my kit in tip top condition.
The JetRib was always going wrong and there wasnt much space to get inside it.
Maybe the new four strokes are better.
I believe that they all use the same engine - maybe wrong here though.

JetRibs also have a reputation for being the "Hoover of the Sea" but I only once had a problem when it sucked in some stones from a beach - made a horible noise but we quickly removed the stones without any damage.



Now to your decision.

Do you want something that is fun or reliable.
I think thats the main decision.
In this end of the tender market, there isnt a perfect solution.
You have to compramise somewhere.
Our boat is out in the Med so I didnt want anything that would be difficult to fix.
But, on the other hand we did want something with power.
Our solution is the Walker Bay with a 40HP Yamaha.
It's performance definately isnt as good as the JetRibs but its way more practical - AND MUCH CHEAPER.

Anyway, here's a link to a recent post that I put up on the Walker Bay
In the post, there's also a good view of the Avon 4 stroke.

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214684


All the best anyway - nothings perfect but I'm sure you will enjoy whatever you get.
 
Hurricane said:
Do you want something that is fun or reliable.
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Rather sadly I'm thinking practical rather than fun to be honest. A Walker Bay with a 25-40hp engine will probably be both reliable and fun, but won't it have almost as big a flashing "steal me" sign above it as a Williams when tied up to the wall in most UK harbours whilst you are off doing the shopping?
 
kcrane said:
Rather sadly I'm thinking practical rather than fun to be honest. A Walker Bay with a 25-40hp engine will probably be both reliable and fun, but won't it have almost as big a flashing "steal me" sign above it as a Williams when tied up to the wall in most UK harbours whilst you are off doing the shopping?
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Praps, although isn't there a slightly perverse argument that a 70kg 40hp outboard is actually less nickable that a 26kg 9.8hp 2-stroke Tohatsu (which is arguably the most desirable outboard there is for a 3m-ish tender)? Although, I appreciate they might just pinch the whole rig...

Cheers
Jimmy
 
Lateral thinking that... maybe it should be so big it can't be carried away, and so flash it can't easily be re-sold. Do Goldfish make a 3m rib?

Another lateral though may be to do it up like a police rib, black tubes, some officious looking lettering, a bit of black&white checkerboarding, get SWMBO to dress up in uniform... oops I've gone off topic now :-)
 
But - you can have four 40Hp Yamahas stolen for the cost of the Williams and STILL be in pocket.
Thats assuming that the thief can actually lift them.
Or put another way - three complete Walker Bays for the cost of a single JetRib
 
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I'm going to go against the forum's anti jet rib stance!

We have a 4 stroke Williams 285 in our T47 and love it. I'll regret saying this, but we've not had any problems with starting/running it and there's nothing better or more fun for blasting around. You can ski off the back of them as well (which we've done in the Solent many times). I personally don't find them that much more difficult to drive at low speed than basic ribs, although I'll admit it's a bit tougher! You do need to get the battery charger fitted into the garage though and make sure the rib is maintained.

I would argue that a jet rib is much harder to steal than a basic tender....it would have to be v. well planned.

The downsides are they are heavy when you get to shore (you can't drag it up a beach as easily as a tender), tougher to direct at low speed and if you ski off them, you have to make sure the rope doesn't get sucked up.

FWIW, the 4 strokes are a huge improvement on the 2 strokes (we've had one of each).

For me, it's all worth it for the 40 knot blasts!
 
Ugh forget the jetrib. Impractical, expensive, unreliable and the rib+outboard option seems just as much fun.

I had a 175hp novamarine, mental speed (jfm clocked it at almost 50 knots) but otherwise painful. Ok, the 13yo thought it brilliant and became expert at handling it although one day he burned over 150€ of fuel. A breakdown needs a crane to get the thing out etc etc. It was utterly unneccesary - he's piling along one morning with me in the bows thinking yep, I'm just about staying on board, I won't say anything, and he says "do you want to go really fast?" Erm, no thanks. Jeez, utterly mental.

Any decent rib plus any sizeable motor is just as much fun. Jfm now has a 40hp motor on a not-huge rib and at a distance driven by members of the Summer Med Fun On Jfm's Boat Club it looks like a small waterspout whirling around in the distance. I think mebbe the centre console and 40hp weight a bit over-hefty - but if he really wants he can sort that with 30hp or extra 2ft on the rib, either of which will cost him under £small not over 10k p-ex and a lot of messing about. Also, when the motor gets smashed or blown up he can get another soonish, not Game Over For This Holiday and wait for man with crane, again.
 
What do you want to do with it

I am biased .

A few years ago I went on a jolly to Majorca, we (10 or so) went out for the day on a 55ft Sports cruiser with a Williams jet tender. When it comes to going ashore for lunch the Williams could only take three persons or so ie driver plus two ashore, so many runs.

I bought a 48ft boat a couple of years ago, second hand with a Williams, I removed it from the package and the owner sold it off seperately, I doubt if he got much for it.

I have a 48ft boat and i have a Quicksilver 310 with a 5 hp outboard with a remote tank and on my boat the dinghy is on snap davits and the outboard seperately on a bracket.

The dinghy will take five and a large dog at a push and can be carried by two people although lighter if you take the outboard off.

Total cost new today ex vat about £1, 500

Think:

Number of people you want to transport.

Speed you want

Do you need to carry it up the beach ? (You do in the Channel Islands )

How will you stow it, how will you stow outboard?
 
I had a jet speed boat and the thing would never stay still, there was just no neutral. I like my Avon 315 with a 15Hp on it, although the Avon seasport 340 with a 25Hp was better, but that got nicked. The one I have now also goes on the davits whereas the last one was too heavy and i suspect a jet rib would be aswell.
 
kcrane said:
So what do you do with a £20k Williams? Is it a practical way to get to shore in the UK? A blast around the bay a couple of times would be great, but would it be more sensible to have a secondhand rib with a slightly tatty 5-10hp o/b on the back?
Click to expand...

Hi Kevn
Much good commentary on here already. I've had the 2 stroke Avon 320, and the 4 stroke and now Walker Bay+40yam

Very much personal opinion. I think jetribs are a bit craap and the worng choice, but a few years ago I raved about them so a complete U turn on my part, and others rave about them now and I don't pick any fight with them because it's a personal choice. I had loads of fun on the 2 stroke but it was smokey, I never had it serviced or repaired because of waiting for the man with the crane as tcm says. After 4 years it was shot to bits, all gelcoat (and laminate for all I know) cracked from being bashed hard into waves (I dont blame Avon - it was all abuse by users that did this!)

The 4 stroke was a disappointment and with one of its failings Avon gave me a whole new boat under wty, delivered in a crate to EBY, and James B kindly sold it for me. I wouldn't buy one because that weber engine is complex and I fear will break down and spoil a holiday. Mine did - a coolant pipe joint failed at bottom of engine, at 3.5hours, engine-out to repair. Same engine in Avon and Will. It's a 2 cyl 105hp whizzer, EFI, turbo, seawater heat exchagers for oil, for engine, and for turbo intercooler. Zillions of wires, electronic wastegate, sensors everwhere. 8000rpm. A fine racey engine, but no room around it to do repairs and it needs servicing.

I love the Walker Bay and remain grateful for RR and Hurric on the forum for "discovering" it. I have the newest version of Yamaha 40, efi, and stealingwise it has an electronic immobiliser that you operate by pushing a remote button on the key fob, like a car. Gorgeous engine, incredibly quiet, and at idle people think it's turned off. Weber engine much noisier

whole W'Bay/Yam rig is 120kg lighter than the Williams and Avon jets.

Hurric I just saw your link above and I completley missed that post first time round, doh. Very nice write up! I was suprised you found the Avon loads faster. I feel it was a bit faster, but only marginally. The WB seems to nearly fly. I think I'm running a coarser prop than you at 13 inches, which is no good for w/skiing but high top speed

My W'Bay was £7.5k inc VAT all in. The 320 Williams/Avon are triple that. If it was the other way round price-wise, I'd still buy the W'Bay.

But Kevin you shold get what you want cos everyone has a different view. I have done a complete U turn from jet fan to outboard fan
 
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gel coat cracked? That must have been a hard hit! Mine jump waves all the time but never cracked the gel coat. My Valiant started leaking after two years around the seems on the sponsons and the hull, but that was sold with the boat.
 
ash12 said:
gel coat cracked? That must have been a hard hit! Mine jump waves all the time but never cracked the gel coat. My Valiant started leaking after two years around the seems on the sponsons and the hull, but that was sold with the boat.
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Yes but it was driven VERY hard. Had loads of fun with it. Used to take it in choppy seas, full throttle, than instantly fling the steering as hard as it will go, and it just spins like a disc. The gelcoat cracks were in the internal mould, from hitting waves hard with the weight of people in the boat I think. I've seen other abused ones in the same state, and better looked-after ones are fine of course
 
jfm said:
Hurric I just saw your link above and I completley missed that post first time round, doh. Very nice write up! I was suprised you found the Avon loads faster.
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Me too, but as I said in that thread there's room for improvement imho, just by trimming out the engine and possibly mount it a tad higher. Trimming a boat for speed is a fine art, and jetribs are easier at least in this respect.
I'd be curious to hear what max speed you can get out of yours, my original guess was for just a couple of mph difference, in spite of less than half the power of the jetrib...
 
One of the big dissapointments with the Walker Bay is stiffness.
Its very flimsy.
I supose because its built from injection moulded plastic.
This means it flexes a lot when it jumps over waves and being light, makes for a scary ride.
But then if it had been made from conventional GRP, it probably couldnt cary such a big engine without fear of cracking the moulding.

One of the criteria when I was buying was weight.
I was looking for something that could be dragged up a beach.
This solution still doesnt tick that box because the engine is a bit heavy.
But there are actually little wheels built into the transome so with a lighter engine it should be possible to launch and recover on a concrete slipway.
A guy in our marina has a Walker Bay with a 20HP Yamaha - a solution that the dealers recommend. He is also very happy with his.

jfm
did you change the prop?
If so, what to?

When towing skiers, we find that it definateky pays to have someone in the bow - As with most small dinghies, the Walker Bay starts to plane just when you dont need it as the skier is rising out of the water - weight in the bow keeps the bow down thus keeping the power in the right direction. So she doesnt climb out of the hole so much as just rise up onto the plane. Remember this dinghy is very stern heavy and if you then put a fat git like me driving, all the weight is in the wrong place.

Having said all that, I've had four very big adults on board, when used as a general purpose tender, and it still planes very easily.
 
Jet ribs etc

Having experienced these working on the posh yachts, unless you have a Captain who will lovingly flush it through after each use, then is best not to consider one. They will be trouble within weeks if you do not diligently wash out the salt after each trip, even the short ones! Jets are not for shoving in the garage and leaving salty. Far better, less hassle, less expense and less likely to be nicked would be a rib and outboard.
 
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