Fairline to Sail to New Home

[47GC]

News from Sky. Not really unexpected. But hope they find someone with deep pockets to continue with the restructuring.

http://news.sky.com/story/1558957/yacht-maker-fairline-sails-to-better-home

 

[henryf]

I did hear some rumours at the boat show with a couple of names mentioned.

Fundamentally Fairline are all there, the problem for me is that they are still making the same design mistakes internally. I thought they had a chance with the Targa 53 but they haven't grasped internal layout and volume. It needs someone with a jigsaw and some plywood to play around inside a hull moulding rather than an interior designer sitting at a computer.

I wonder if they could explore more niche market products like trawlers or cats. How are Lagoon doing with their motor cat range?

Henry

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

That is what always happens with Equity Hedge Funders and Boat builders. It never works.
Hopefully they will be saved by someone decent not another hedge funder as has been going on for years!
I guess they should have taken the offer of Azimut back in 2005/6. I am sure they still regret it.

Fairline and Cats will never work. What they need is remodel there business totally not there boats which are still very good looking.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I wonder if they could explore more niche market products like trawlers or cats. How are Lagoon doing with their motor cat range?

I don't think they can compete head on with Sunseeker and Princess any more so they do have to find different market niches, thats fairly sure but the problem is that takes a lot of development cash which Fairline don't have at present. I agree with PYB. A boatbuilding business needs a more sympathetic and long termist owner than an equity fund and I hope very much that Fairline do find such an owner. It is still a globally recognised brand with a high degree of credibility and that will be of value to somebody

 

[MapisM]

I guess they should have taken the offer of Azimut back in 2005/6.

I wasn't aware of that, are you positive about it, W?
Unlike many others in this industry, Vitelli is a down-to-earth guy, and it's somewhat hard to figure why he might have been interested in an investment like that.
Particularly at the silly pre-crisis values that most crooks - ops, sorry, I meant financial investors - were expecting to fetch from these companies....

 

[jrudge]

Interesting times. I did wonder if something like this was afoot following recent reports about better capital and management changes.

I wish them well but sadly I can't see the T53 being a hit given its combi of price and low mid cabin.

Boat building needs new models to sell. New models need capital. Capital investment either comes from positive cash flow of investor confidence so it is a vicious circle.

An Chinese type investor a la sun seeker with deep deep pockets st required if there is to be a step change.

The quality is there. The people are skilled and nice with it.

We will see !

 

[rafiki_]

The article rambles a bit but tells us nothing. Fairline needs a cash injection to develop new products, and also needs to relocate to a coastal facility so they can build bigger boats. How much? Well Deloitte will call this, and I hope Moulton is successful in finding investment.

 

[henryf]

Fairline needs a cash injection to develop new products, and also needs to relocate to a coastal facility so they can build bigger boats.

I'm not sure they do necessarily need to move. Fleming's largest boat is 78 feet. In the trawler world that's a decent size with a lot of market underneath.

Are there people who would appreciate a British built vessel in that segment? We have a fantastic eye for surface finish and design in the UK. The made in England sticker is still worth something in foreign lands, just look a Land Rover.

I agree that to try and take on the likes of Princess is a huge ask given they have several years and some shrewd designers behind them. You might do one model but it would have to be spectacular or else very cheap, or a combination of the two.

At the lower end (price wise) of the market I think someone like Prestige is a realistic target.

All in my humble opinion of course.

I appreciate it's very easy to criticise something when it's built and you can walk around it. Somewhat harder to create from scratch.

Henry

 

[Blue Sunray]

The made in England sticker is still worth something in foreign lands, just look a Land Rover.

That made me laugh I'm afraid.

 

[rafiki_]

I'm not sure they do necessarily need to move. Fleming's largest boat is 78 feet. In the trawler world that's a decent size with a lot of market underneath.

Are there people who would appreciate a British built vessel in that segment? We have a fantastic eye for surface finish and design in the UK. The made in England sticker is still worth something in foreign lands, just look a Land Rover.

I agree that to try and take on the likes of Princess is a huge ask given they have several years and some shrewd designers behind them. You might do one model but it would have to be spectacular or else very cheap, or a combination of the two.

At the lower end (price wise) of the market I think someone like Prestige is a realistic target.

All in my humble opinion of course.

I appreciate it's very easy to criticise something when it's built and you can walk around it. Somewhat harder to create from scratch.

Henry

Henry, there is no way you could get a Flemming 78 from Oundle to Ipswich. Also Oundle is not set up for low margin volume boats like the French manufacturers. That would be like Porsche changing their product line up to Skoda's, and expecting to make a profit on 100,000 units a year! Princess and Sunseeker have left Fairline behind as they have access to more investment cash, and can sell fewer larger boats at higher margins. Fairline are stuck in the 50' to 80' range, can't build bigger due to location, and can't make a margin at the current volume/sales mix.

 

[Portofino]

I'm not sure they do necessarily need to move. Fleming's largest boat is 78 feet. In the trawler world that's a decent size with a lot of

Henry

Hmm , look at it this way -if you stand still 78 ft for over 10 y - - and your direct ( read SS Priny not Flemming ) have taken a step(s) forwards -then you are surely behind .
There's only so much rearanging the hull sizes under 78 that you can do .
Not withstanding the extra revenue stream / marque status / etc of SS and Priny have achieved peddling bigger boats to willing punters .

 

[superheat6k]

They like Sealine have fallen into this 'must make bigger trap'. Most of us actually are quite happy sub-40', don't have to continually ring ahead to find a berth, and they abandoned one of their most successful ever boats, the Turbo 36 and its principle of an aft cabin.

This would have given them the basis to produce a decent trawler.

For SIBS they were aware I had recently sold a Fairline, they issued me tickets and guest passes, and at the time they invited me I had not purchased Boadicea. So I showed up with my lovely 'Fairline Guest' pass dangling from my neck, and them not knowing I had bought, to find myself totally ignored and basically " ... there are the boats over there, I am sure you can see what you want ... (so get on with it)"

Now I know I had bought another boat, but they did not. A prior owner must be a far more likely candidate than the normal band of fender kickers walking around the boats. I did not want to waste their time, but I genuinely interested in the details of their boats than the air-heads festooning the stand would ever know.

That stand must have cost them at least £80 k to put on, and I was one prior owner and higher potential future owner completely ignored. When I went back on Saturday with SWMBO we didn't even bother looking.

I think they call it 'Lost their way'. I wonder how long to the City Link style announcement, and that will be a truly sad day for British boatbuilding.

 

[Garold]

Pre pack admin. Followed by a quick sale to Aurelius, the Hanse Yachts owner.

Fair line would fit well just above their Sealine brand.

And they'd get the price down to compete with Prestige.

Garold

 

[henryf]

For Princess and Sunseeker moving larger has definitely been the right thing to do. They are actually quite cheap when it comes to big boats and X % profit on £15-20 million is better than the same % on £400k. In some ways clients at that level are probably easier to sell to and take a profit out of as well.

In Fairlines case I'm not sure going bigger would help, it would only compound the problem. To run you must first walk. That means resolving the basic spatial issues inside.

The choice of 53 feet to launch a new boat was wise. Get the 40-45 foot clients up a bit, Wow the 55-58 foot clients with such an amazing design that they go with a 53 footer and I don't think the 65 and 78 foot boats they currently build are bad, particularly if they sell for less than the equivalent Princess or Sunseeker. I've said on several occasions that I don't consider the Princess 52 fly as the best boat in their range so it's an easy target. Sunseeker boats never seem huge inside so Fairline had the chance of a goal and possibly still do.

Henry

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

I wasn't aware of that, are you positive about it, W?
Unlike many others in this industry, Vitelli is a down-to-earth guy, and it's somewhat hard to figure why he might have been interested in an investment like that.
Particularly at the silly pre-crisis values that most crooks - ops, sorry, I meant financial investors - were expecting to fetch from these companies....

Sure no, but the rumor at around 2005/07 was there, and then it jumped on Hatteras for some time.
I think at the time it was more of an image think, in the end he did a few mistakes see Gobbi buyout.
In business no one is perfect.

As for Fairline needing to built bigger to solve its problems I am not so sure of that, margins are so small in the upper market as well, even when the quality is very high.
They need IMO a smaller business model with someone managing hands on, not a bunch of bean counters.
Absolute has sold its 2016 production in Cannes and its biggest model is a 72.
What have Gobbi and his boys done right in recent years with Absolute, they always invested in totally new models to compete between 40 and 72 feet.

How many total new models has Fairline had in recent years, AFAIK only the 48 Targa from 2013, then we have the 50 from 2011, 55 Squadron from 2007, 58 Targa from 2009.

 

[henryf]

That made me laugh I'm afraid.

Are you suggesting Range Rovers and their various spin offs aren't a very successful brand overseas?

Henry

 

[admillington]

Just drive along the A34 and see how many Land Rover Transporters they are heading to the docks to see how successful they are at exporting.

Are you suggesting Range Rovers and their various spin offs aren't a very successful brand overseas?

Henry

 

[petem]

I keep hearing how great Sunseeker and Princess are but are they actually selling boats and more importantly making any money? And how much of their production is stock piling? Who's going to buy these massive boats anyway? If Fairline have successfully moved to a build to order model and haven't had any redundancies this year that would seem like a pretty healthy position to me. And hasn't a certain member of this parish recently stated that F'line actually make an operational profit?

Regarding the Targa 53 (http://www.fairline.com/en/boats/targa/53-gran-turismo/gallery), I don't hear anyone saying that the similarly sized SS San Remo (http://www.sunseeker.com/en/range/san-remo/san-remo)has a similar height restriction and the Princess V52 only seems (http://www.princessyachts.com/media...rmat=jpg&slimmage=true&rnd=130836820010000000) to solve the problem by having a multi level floor and a sunken berth. At the end of the day, designers only have a limited amount of vertical space to play with (the compromise being an unsightly / top heavy profile). If I'm wrong and the design is inferior to their competitors then perhaps that's the result of having bean counters rather than boaters in charge.

So I really hope there's some clever people at Deloittes who can secure a British future for Fairline. I'm sure with some 'out of the box' thinking (whether that means displacement / long range / trawler yachts) or focussing on what they've historically excelled at this can be done.

 

[henryf]

Princess are selling boats and most are made to order. Build slots have to be reserved a long time in advance by dealers so there will be occasional stock boats but they are the exception rather than the rule. World events can conspire to create some stock from time to time as can individuals who have a change of circumstance or were never really there in the first place, but in the main it's to order as has been demonstrated on here a number of times, the current P43 thread being a good example.

The V52 is quite an old boat now. Whilst not my favourite layout see what they have done space wise with the P52 flybridge. It's in a different league to the Fairline with virtually flat floor and roof in the master cabin. Whilst I think they have wasted space opposite the galley that is merely positioning of furniture, the raw space is there. I also think the galley suffers at the expense of window sq ft but it's much easier to block off windows for more storage than it is to create windows where they don't exist.

Either way the V52 and even it's smaller sister the V48 have a far more roomy main cabin.

Who's buying the boats? 250 or so individuals in a world of 7 billion. None of the manufacturers discussed here are making tens of thousands of boats and in the case of Princess I'm happy they stand close scrutiny on the world stage. You may not agree on price and there is certainly room for improvement but on the whole their stuff works well.

Sunseeker have engineered themselves into the larger market and it's interesting Princess followed at a time when some might have thought it foolish given the economic climate. I suspect the buyer of a 30 or 40 metre plus boat is not down to his or her last million and so shielded from day to day economic turmoil. Whether they are worth 100 or 200 million still leaves enough to buy a boat after the man from Tescos has been weighed in and the repayments on the Allegro are taken care of



Henry

 

[petem]

Who's buying the boats? 250 or so individuals in a world of 7 billion.

Hmmmm. In a world of 7,000,000,000 billion, why aren't 2500 or 25000 people buying these boats (both number being a minute fraction of the world's population). You cannot argue that this is an extremely and fickle global market and contraction to 125 boats is more likely than it expanding to 500 boats.