Fairline Squadron 78 refit/fit - Hard Top

[jfm]

Great post as always JFM.

I take it from the above that you've shelved any plans to fit solar panels on your H/T?
Last year you said you were considering them, as a way of reducing generator run time / not hammering the batteries so hard.
Or was it not really feasible? Doesn't appear to be much surface area left outside the folding sunroof, guess the hassle / benefit ratio didn't stack up?

Yup pretty much T. As you say the area left after the canvas bit (and the footprint of the radar mast and domes) isn't a big % of the starting rectangle size, though actually it is a few m2 I suppose. Fact is that you run out of bandwidth on these projects what with all the design and research to get this far, and the day job, so the hassle/benefit doesn't stack up exactly as you say. This year at least - I can retro it.

 

[jfm]

was about to make separate thread about this, (might still do that)
many people asc me if I plan to place SP's on BA, and I alway's firmly answer no, because the added power is so little on such a big powerfull machine,
BUT
after visiting Mets and Boot, I saw these flat SP's, and thought that would be perfect for fitting on top of the lower helm roof top, and maybe a few on the HT aswell ?
all this together would give roughly 1000W power,
and that would be usefull for less generator running time at anchor, (this would be enough for fridges and stabs during day time)
and for me, all winter when there is nobody onboard, no need for shore power connection / keep the battery's topped up; for fridges and alarm systems ...

1000w is indeed interesting. With what surface area? Can you post the name or a link please?

My armchair analysis goes like this:

1. As regards cost: A kilowatt for 8 hours/day and 3655 days is 3000KwH. At €0.20 for marina electricity and half that for taxed diesel oil, your annual saving is say €500. The things will cost thousands of euros, so you are into many many years of payback.
2. As regards avoiding genset run time, you can kook at it theoreticallty and say that you can charge batteries at say 200 amps@24v = 5Kw, so an 8 hour day of energy from the solar panels equates to running the genset for 1.5 hours less. BUT in the real world you run the genset for a few hours everyday for other things, and in that few hours you can produce a multiple of the 8KwH that the solar panels give you
3. As regards climate/pollution 8kwh is perhaps 2.5 litres less diesel burned per day

So I suppose you can convince yourself that the things are pointless, or you can say that at 1Kw the idea becomes interesting! I would certainly be interested at 1kw

 

[jfm]

Quick update, following an 0800 visit to factory today

A few things are being finished off, but phase 1 so to speak is done. The wrapping, mechanism installation and wiring are all complete and the main structure is on an 8m trailer ready to drive next week to south of France.

The trailer set up is quite something: the HT isn't held on by any straps, due to chafing worries. Instead there is a steel frame bolted to the trailer base, then the HT is bolted (via its crane attachment points) to this frame, so the trailer, frame and HT are a single bolted together assembly so to speak. (The purple straps you can see are only there for the crane to lift it off). It is going in the x-channel chunnel -the height limit is 4m and this rig is 10cm under that. I know they have measured it carefully but I'm still keeping fingers crossed! There will be more packing/tree scratching protection added before it does the journey. Next time I see it will be in Antibes next week

The slats mechanism is by Makefast and looks good in the flesh. I'll report back later obviously. Tech info here http://www.makefastmarine.com/products/biminis-sunroofs/powered-hard-top-stacking-sunroof

More next week

 

[BartW]

1000w is indeed interesting. With what surface area? Can you post the name or a link please?

My armchair analysis goes like this:

1. As regards cost: A kilowatt for 8 hours/day and 3655 days is 3000KwH. At €0.20 for marina electricity and half that for taxed diesel oil, your annual saving is say €500. The things will cost thousands of euros, so you are into many many years of payback.
2. As regards avoiding genset run time, you can kook at it theoreticallty and say that you can charge batteries at say 200 amps@24v = 5Kw, so an 8 hour day of energy from the solar panels equates to running the genset for 1.5 hours less. BUT in the real world you run the genset for a few hours everyday for other things, and in that few hours you can produce a multiple of the 8KwH that the solar panels give you
3. As regards climate/pollution 8kwh is perhaps 2.5 litres less diesel burned per day

So I suppose you can convince yourself that the things are pointless, or you can say that at 1Kw the idea becomes interesting! I would certainly be interested at 1kw

they were semi flexible panels, 140W/m2 iirc, different sizes of panels available, didn't give them much attention but wrote their name on a piece of paper, hope to find it at home

1. regards cost, at the moment the marina charges approx 45 euro/ month for the electric, (just battery topup, and one fridge) no big deal but I hate the fact that I have to take care that my transponder has enough money on the account (silly system in Porte Montenegro for the non permanent berth holders)
moreover, if someone accidently disconnects the shore power, the freezer will thaw,
all this would be solved with the SP's

2; As regards genset running time, we cook on gas.
During daytime at anchor almost never airco, the dishwasher we run after dinner.
Only fridges and stabs, and here the SP's can make a big difference in comfort; best part of daytime, no genny running.

3. is a non issue in my situation ;-)

I have a priority list, and SP's are quite low on that list
but permanently making plans and changing priority's

 

[BartW]

It is going in the x-channel chunnel -the height limit is 4m and this rig is 10cm under that. I know they have measured it carefully but I'm still keeping fingers crossed!

that was going to be my first question, and in my case a big issue (I want a slightly wider HT)
all over central europe the height limit is 4m, all trucks are within that limit, the gates in our company building are 4.10m
I believe in UK its more, I saw much higher trucks in your country, they can't go off the Island

interesting info about the supplier of the glyding system, do you know which boat builders use this ?
do you know of any long time reliability experiences ?
I think this is a very critical part, exposed to strong winds, salt spary, sun ...

the quotation I have is from a Opac mare sister comp, (construction co for cabrio car roofs)
AFAIK they supply many of the It boat builders ao MCY

good to know there is a second player !

 

[jfm]

Besenzoni do these mechanisms too, so there are at least 3 players. Lots of builders use Makefast including fe Princess, Atlantis, Azimut, as well as Fairline. I don't know about reliability first hand, but I like the look of how they have made it. I'll report back during this summer

I don't get why you want a wider HT Bart. My beam is 5.7m; yours is 5.65m. The dimensions I gave above might be wrong; I will check next week

 

[BartW]

I don't get why you want a wider HT Bart. My beam is 5.7m; yours is 5.65m. The dimensions I gave above might be wrong; I will check next week

I haven't done any drawing yet with these details,
but the FB surface between the side "wals" is approx 3.6m wide iirc from when I took these measures, thats why I have this problem in my mind !
I want to make the HT slightly wider as the FB surface
or a tiny bit wider than the radar arch top surface, (not much)
all tbc ofcause.

therefor I'm surprised that you can place your HT on a trailer,
the trailer is 0,6m high ?
only [(3.4m / sinus mounting angle) -0.10m headroom] left


the principle of Opacmare system looks similar to yours, but couldn't see the fine details
saw it on a few occasions on a MCY, ao my neighbour in PM
I'll investigate / post details before making a decision.
thats for later.

 

[Lozzer]

Off the top of my head I think my soft top is Besenzoni to be 100% sure I would need to check. Touch wood it has been reliable with little intervention. Simply rinse runners with fresh water occasionally.

I have always slowed down when closing or opening the roof as it can flap vigorously otherwise. The area the folds gather when open needs regular cleaning else it can get dusty inside. The underside of the roof has a material that covers the rails, this needs attention regularly as it collects dust, simple forcing water through the perforations brings it up nicely. A friend of mine on a SS 26m sends hers off to the cleaners.

So all in easy to use and maintain you just have to be careful when aloft.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

you just have to be careful when aloft.

Is there is a need for fixing for a fall-arrest harness?

 

[Lozzer]

Probably a good idea but in reality would one use it? Shuffling along the sides is interesting especially after you have just polished and waxed... Even with boots on its slippery.

I always convince myself that I will be able to jump clear of boat as usually we don't have boats alongside in home port. Having said that I don't really want to take a swim I know what other people empty into the harbour.

One can do some of the cleaning from below but to do the fabric you have to be aloft.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Probably a good idea but in reality would one use it?

Probably not, although you never know - I had a dayworker ask me for fall arrest harness once, and this was just for polishing the sides of the radar arch on my T40!

 

[jfm]

The underside of the roof has a material that covers the rails, this needs attention regularly as it collects dust, simple forcing water through the perforations brings it up nicely. A friend of mine on a SS 26m sends hers off to the cleaners.

The underside of the roof, the perforated white fabric, zips on and off quite easily so I've ordered two - one for on the boat and t'other at the cleaners

 

[MapisM]

I'd love to get down to S Sardinia but don't think I'll make it this year - at least not as early as the Deleted User/Hurricane trip down there (late June, iirc). I'm planning possibly to shoot across to Balearics to meet my brother there, if timing works out. He is planning to bring his trawler on its own bottom rather than ship it, so he might call in on Balearics for family holiday

(He is useless at updating his thread on silver Dee refit! The John Deeres are in, roof of boat all sealed up, but lots of furniture and joinery finishing still to do. Lots of Garmin gear is going in right now. My old hydraulic bimini is up in Scotland being cut n shut to make it smaller and it will be fitted. I think he will be on his way in May, approx.)

LOL, yeah, I already noticed that SD refit thread shines for its lack of progress, which is a shame 'cause I'm sure it would be very interesting.
Oh, well. I guess it stands to reason that someone is only keen on REAL and not so much on VIRTUAL boating...

Re. Southern Sard, afaik Hurric booked the berth for the whole summer season, and Deleted User will definitely be there at least till the end of June/beginning of Jul, but I'm not sure for how long.
My own plans, back in 2006 when I moved there from the Adriatic, were to spend a couple of season or three max, and then move on.
But as it happens, I'm now calling the place home, and I'll surely be there at least till the end of Oct.
If you would go to the Balearics, crossing to S Sard and then follow the W coast of Sard+Cors is a great alternative route for returning to SoF.
A bit longer of course, but definitely worth the deviation imho.
I'm now teaching you to suck eggs, though...!
...so, just drop me an email if/when you would consider the destination!

 

[henryf]

There aren't many people on the planet who would know what that is when they see it on the road!

Hopefully the roof opening will spare it from any wind problems. Quite a light trailer with a lot of potential sail area. Obviously an advantage of having it opening.

It will have done some miles by the time it arrives in Cleethorpes-Sur-Mer.

I do admire your spirit. What with your brother and his little project (looking forward to seeing that) you must surely win the family award for grand patrons of the industry

We should have an annual JFM trophy for boat project of the year....


Henry

 

[kcrane]

The underside of the roof, the perforated white fabric, zips on and off quite easily so I've ordered two - one for on the boat and t'other at the cleaners

Is the same on the V48. The outer roof fabric was replaced by Princess for me last year - from Flexicovers IIRC. The original was hard to clean as there is no room to stand on the roof and it is too big too reach easily, so it ended up needing replacement. The soft perforated inner was going to be replaced but went off to the dry cleaners for the second time in my ownership and came back perfectly serviceable, so went back on. It is held by industrial level velcro, which is OK, but a bit taut now the lining has shrunk slightly.

 

[jfm]

There aren't many people on the planet who would know what that is when they see it on the road!

Hopefully the roof opening will spare it from any wind problems. Quite a light trailer with a lot of potential sail area. Obviously an advantage of having it opening.

It will have done some miles by the time it arrives in Cleethorpes-Sur-Mer.

I do admire your spirit. What with your brother and his little project (looking forward to seeing that) you must surely win the family award for grand patrons of the industry

We should have an annual JFM trophy for boat project of the year....


Henry

Tee hee. They plan to drive it carefully and slowly - 2 days trip rather than the TCM style mad dash in 8 hours. I'm hoping the satnav doesn't take them down the quaint cobbled streets of Antibes though. As regards mileage, it started out in Slovenia at Seaway (they are a contract GRP infusion moulder, as well as makers of Greenline boats), thence to Ipswich, thence to Antibes

My brother's refit is about same price as my HT so yes between us we have chucked a third of a bar into the boat industry this winter alone, erk. Seriously though, Vas needs to get any trophies going - huge can-do optimism is easy enough for a weekend, but three years is a heck of a stint and the machine is going to be stunning when finished

How are plans for EJ's season in Cleethorpes? I thought S sort of said the truck was pretty much booked There's a Sardinia cruise in the diary for starters involving Hurricane Petem Deleted User and MapisM, and MYAG will have his Sunseeker in Antibes as of about May and will jump at any chance to clock up 2000 miles

 

[henryf]

Tee hee. They plan to drive it carefully and slowly - 2 days trip rather than the TCM style mad dash in 8 hours. I'm hoping the satnav doesn't take them down the quaint cobbled streets of Antibes though. As regards mileage, it started out in Slovenia at Seaway (they are a contract GRP infusion moulder, as well as makers of Greenline boats), thence to Ipswich, thence to Antibes

My brother's refit is about same price as my HT so yes between us we have chucked a third of a bar into the boat industry this winter alone, erk. Seriously though, Vas needs to get any trophies going - huge can-do optimism is easy enough for a weekend, but three years is a heck of a stint and the machine is going to be stunning when finished

How are plans for EJ's season in Cleethorpes? I thought S sort of said the truck was pretty much booked There's a Sardinia cruise in the diary for starters involving Hurricane Petem Deleted User and MapisM, and MYAG will have his Sunseeker in Antibes as of about May and will jump at any chance to clock up 2000 miles

Well that sounds like a plan then, if we fancy a week in France - if it ever stops rain of course! there's an old Fairline with a canoe on the roof or a Sunny that's been to the moon and back - very impressed when we chatted after the boat show, not afraid to have a little run out in the old girl is he. The Turkish tourist board are obviously sponsoring him in the same way the SOF have got you on commission.

If you want to languish in the sun kissed haven they call Gosport then you've got an old Princess with a sheet strapped over the flybridge to keep the worst of the UV away. You'll still need your sun cream and a hanky of course

The prices would play hell with my tight arse down your neck of the woods. I'd just need to learn the French for "How much!"

Keep smiling & it will look good. When you posted the picture of the Bimini it made me realise how much cleaner the hard top will look.

Henry

 

[jfm]

..not afraid to have a little run out in the old girl is he.

Not half. MyAG really puts us all to shame. When we did the Corsica cruise last summer he was disappointed not be be invited. In our small minds he was in another continent but his comment was " I was only three and a half days from you". The guy talks in days. Fabulous stuff

The prices would play hell with my tight arse down your neck of the woods

Not at all. Diesel is 90p a litre so we are heading for our cheapest seasonal fuel bill in longer than I can remember. And thanks to Super Mario printing a trillion and a half euros all our shopping and labour costs are 15% cheaper than last year

I expect S is talking to peters and may already

 

[MYAG]

The underside of the roof, the perforated white fabric, zips on and off quite easily so I've ordered two - one for on the boat and t'other at the cleaners

I cant picture what you refer to when you describe "the perforated white fabric, zips on and off.......". I don't have that and cant work out from your pics what its for. Interested to see a close up of one in situ.

 

[MYAG]

.......................... How are plans for EJ's season in Cleethorpes? I thought S sort of said the truck was pretty much booked There's a Sardinia cruise in the diary for starters involving Hurricane Petem Deleted User and MapisM, and MYAG will have his Sunseeker in Antibes as of about May and will jump at any chance to clock up 2000 miles

Ah yes but a slight change of plans since I sat next to a very nice and convincing Belgian at dinner in Dusseldorf. I will be leaving Turkey in May and popping in to Montenegro for a week or so to drink all his wine and compare on board cuisine before slipping in to Carloforte on the way to SoF by kind invitation of Deleted User to see some sort of festival (probably more wine again). Should be in Antibes by earlyish July so please stock up.