Fairline Sold

FlowerPower said:
Yes, that is the "worst possible result", which we all hope will not happen.
Click to expand...

I,am thinking Mini -look what BMW did with that .
They acquired the "interlectual rights" -brand ,call it what you will when they took over failing Rover -they were after the the 4WD drive tech of LR to launch there X range .Later passed LR to ford ,who sold it to TATA along with JAG forming JLR .
Which with the right investment in the modal line up and management - now look at JLR .
Boat building as mentioned is tiny FL need a few buyers (as do SS and Priny ) out of the 7 Bn population .
Those numbers have been shrinking ,but FL have ceiling,ed out at 78 ft unlike the other two.
It never was a quality issue .
There is a Targa 48 and Prinny V 48 (? Same equivalent modal) moored side by side both brand newy,s on my pontoon .
The FL knocks spots off the Prinny -when you stand and stare at them together..
I,am hoping Flectcher will use the FL brand to punch upmarket .longer term like Sealine this will mean relocating production .Not sure where ,could be abroad ? -

I do not think the brand will die , on other builder has just acquired it .
BMW acquired Mini
 
Portofino said:
I do not think the brand will die , on other builder has just acquired it .
BMW acquired Mini
Click to expand...

Well, then it would make perfect sense if Bavaria acquired the brand and some of its assets. Bavaria has lot's of spare production capacity in Germany and knows how to produce on a fine-tuned budget. Some parts production and assembly could remain in Oundle. Problem is Bavaria is also owned by capital interests looking for a way out.... maybe less urgent, but still. OTOH, it seems Fairline can be added to the portfolio for a very modest sum as Better Capital has obviously written off most of their investment. The "weight" of 2 widely known brands under the same hat and a very efficient production facility in Germany could make it easier for the owner of Bavaria, Oaktree Capital Management, to also find the exit from the boat building industry.

I cannot for one minute see this Wessex Bristol one-man-show (with a questionable renommé) be a successful operator of Fairline. The new owner as far as is known has no access to the necessary financing. That means 1) nothing to invest in the business 2) Better Capital will not get paid their "deferred consideration" for years; or more likely decades. The "deferred consideration" must mean Better Capital still holds a veto over how the assets are disposed of. I doubt this Mr Ayiaz Ahmed can just sell off assets for a fraction of their value; send Better Capital their agreed share and then cash in his reward.

Wessex Bristol is a front; hired to wind down Fairline and sell off the assets, so Better Capital can distance itself from the fiasco but get a little of the invested money back. Better Capital don't want their named tainted by the ugly process of liquidating a company, so they insert an insulating layer between themselves and the ugliness.

The "temporary lay-offs" are the first clear indication this is the plan. Don't be surprised if "temporary" turns out to be permanent. The obvious financial weakness of the new owner, err.... I mean, front-man.... makes it easy to justify drastic changes to Fairline's organisation; like sending home a third of the workers or selling off buildings and other production capacity.

Sad truth is Better Capital never had the faintest idea what to do with Fairline. The only tool they have in their toolbox is money...... so that's what they apply to all problems. But money is only part of the solution and wasted without a credible plan.
 
Whoever owns Fairline, they need a robust business plan, with access to funds to make it work. Fairline need to clarify their market sector, and work out how to build and sell boats profitably. They mus learn from whatever hasn't work recently and why, and what is going to change in the future. They have a great brand equity, and a good degree of loyalty with purchasers, particularly in the UK.
The analogy with BMW Mini is quite interesting. BMW has invested hugely in MIni, building sales to over 300,000 a year. Rover would never have achieved this. The original Mini sales topped out at less than 100,000 pa, and never made a profit. The brand is desirable and now seen as a premium one. I'm not yet sure if Mini is a profitable brand, but should become so now that the 1 series is sharing the platform, which should push sales to over half a million a year.
 
Fletcher haven't introduced a new model for about 20 years. They dropped the larger models & survived by small scale production of the existing designs and the sale of spare parts.

Maybe this is the plan for Fairline. A reduced workforce building smaller numbers of the smallest models?

It seems to have kept Fletcher alive but I have no idea whether it would work for boats in the Fairline price bracket.
 
Portofino said:
It never was a quality issue .
There is a Targa 48 and Prinny V 48 (? Same equivalent modal) moored side by side both brand newy,s on my pontoon .
The FL knocks spots off the Prinny -when you stand and stare at them together..
I,am hoping Flectcher will use the FL brand to punch upmarket.
Click to expand...


It was / is a design issue. Across the range there are failings when compared to the opposition. Steps everywhere, restricted ceiling height, wasted space, lack of full beam owners cabin in a 50 ft flybridge, less window sq ft & so on.

The Targa 48 may well look prettier as might the Targa 53 but unlike Fletcher buyers people looking at bigger boats go inside and make their purchasing decision from inside.

It's very easy to design and build a pretty boat, much harder to make the inside space work under 50-60ft. You also need to understand what a 35ft buyer might see as acceptable a 45ft buyer won't and so it continues up the scale.

I know Fairline are trying to be upbeat and there are brand fans on here but to read that the Targa 53 received rave reviews is wrong. All people, myself included have done is point out the rather obvious internal issues. Until Fairline accepts they made a mistake they can never move forward.

I spent a long time speaking with the Fairline top brass at the British Motorboat show in Swanwick explaining why we had moved away from Fairline for our last 2 purchases. It had nothing to do with price, in fact I suspect we spent more money, everything to do with design.

I was assured the 53 would address all those issues, the only thing I saw was bigger windows. Fairline need to sack their design or concept team. They should have done it a long time ago. Until that happens they will never again be a market leader.

I'm really sorry to be so negative and I understand jobs are on the line but if Fairline is going to be saved then let's see a Fairline which is built on solid foundations.

The max 78 ft issue is a red herring. Sort out the smaller boats first then if you can scale up worry about where to build them at that point.

I'm saying this not because I'm a Princess owner, I'm a Princess owner because of these things. By training I'm a designer and spent 5 years at art college before going out into the world. Design isn't clever, it's just logic and common sense.


Henry
 
The thingg is Henry, as you frequently remind us, Princess are already doing this really really well.

So if you were Fairline Head Honcho, do you say "hey, let's do what the competition already do very successfully", or do you try and engineer and slightly different solution, maybe go for the sportier buyer who is prepared to compromise a little on ultimate space for a racier look and sharper dynamics.

Not everyone is waterborne caravanning. Even at this level there are some owners who have property plus a boat in the Med for example.

I don't disagree with your philosophy, but it is based on how you go boating. And that might be how most buyers do. But not all.

Think of it like A BMW 6 Series - less doors and less space than a 5 Series, on paper it makes no sense and most would buy the 5 Series. But that doesn't mean that there isn't a market for the 6 Series.
 
ari said:
The thingg is Henry, as you frequently remind us, Princess are already doing this really really well.

So if you were Fairline Head Honcho, do you say "hey, let's do what the competition already do very successfully", or do you try and engineer and slightly different solution, maybe go for the sportier buyer who is prepared to compromise a little on ultimate space for a racier look and sharper dynamics.

Not everyone is waterborne caravanning. Even at this level there are some owners who have property plus a boat in the Med for example.

I don't disagree with your philosophy, but it is based on how you go boating. And that might be how most buyers do. But not all.

Think of it like A BMW 6 Series - less doors and less space than a 5 Series, on paper it makes no sense and most would buy the 5 Series. But that doesn't mean that there isn't a market for the 6 Series.
Click to expand...

But that's another comparison with a sector that has little or nothing to do with marine leisure. If fairline were to have high volume product for the a b and c's that benefited from aspirational product r and d at the top end then all well and good. BMW wouldn't launch the i8 to save the brand, they'd get the 3 series best in class...and that it seems is what fairline have failed to do.
'Built around you' - 'no compromise' the marketing department have tailored a hook for a boat that Fairline haven't built... Unless their customers are 4'9'or do not feel that stooping or foregoing anything other than the missionary position is not a compromise :)

Edit

Not that I am a FL basher, I love the boats that I've been on, 53 included. Maybe not to my taste but they use nice materials and have a good fit out. Now if they went on to produce a range of trawler SD's and compete with say the Azimut or Beneteau range....that would be interesting.
 
Last edited:
I agree that comparisons with cars can be a bit tenuous.

The point I'm trying to make is, is there room for all manufacturers to be chasing the same goal (space) or does it make more sense for Fairline to try and mop up customers that have slightly different priorities (even if there are less of them)?

Given the model investment Pdincess have had, is it really realistic for Fairline to simply go head to head for the exact same customers? Is that a strategy likely to pay off? Or does it make more sense to offer a slight alternative for those with different priorities. Same marketplace, but a different choice.
 
I would agree that Fairline need to be different to Princess but it doesn't matter which house builder you are, from Barretts to one off multi million pound houses you will still have doors big enough to walk through.

There are certain things that no one should be expected to compromise on when you have a 55' boat and one of those is being able to stand up in the master cabin. The basics have to be right, the frills can be different.
 
So 466 workers. Average cost say £45000 including ni, pension, overtime etc .

That gives £20m a year.

That make about 80 boats. Not all boats are equal ( far from it ) that give about £250k of labour per unit. Throw in s lot of grp , engines , generators and a million other bits. Emm don't want to be a boat builder !
 
I can't add much from a F/L perspective, but have known about the Fletcher sale for a little while and the staff are very upbeat and see as very positive. They have had plans for resurrecting larger 24' & 28' hulls for sometime, but investment has been the stumbling block as I understand. The genuinely held view there seems to be that this is now imminent and hence the gearing up for SIBS. Anyone looking at the Fletcher stand in the previous few years would have noticed that it was a) shared with the former owners SBS Trailers and b) somewhat lacking in new stock! This wasn't the case this year where a range was on display from the Dell Quay upwards and they each had their own pitches. Fletcher's problem in its Hornby heyday was perhaps too many models and although most sold pretty well for a time, some are very rare. R&D budgets were slashed under Hornby ownership. They still have a good brand and with some investment, will undoubtedly sell stock. The new owners have a lease from SBS on the current facility and many of the staff have been there a long time with a wealth of experience. Asset stripping wouldn't appear to be an option here from what I've heard, so maybe the new owner genuinely wants to build a portfolio of boat building along the lines of a smaller 'Brunswick' type operation? If only in the sense of buying power and shared suppliers? How well all this will reflect in sales and a profitable business remains to be seen - as does any interaction between Fletcher and Fairline. Having visited the facility, I was amazed by the diversity of products made - from boats and boat trailers, to GRP box trailers, marina/garden trolleys and a whole plethora of similar ranges. They also made hulls for other vessels, military projects as well as prototype mouldings for other boat builders. Many years ago, Fletcher made all sorts of products like truck mudguards (someone also suggested the early bodyshell of the Reliant Robins, but can't recall who!) - optimising the use of facilities and skills is perhaps a shrewd move if this production can be done to build stock in quiet times? Presumably however, SBS will have retained many of the established product lines...
 
It appears the new owner/s don't have a huge amount of capital to throw into the company, so it is clear the business model of building to order is the only way forward. The plant & machinery etc are presumably part of the deal, so other than a small amount of working capital (customer deposits, I can't imagine banks queing up to lend) the production can continue, except, as others on here have pointed out, customer confidence that their deposits are safe may be an issue. Without customer orders there is no sustainable business, but the new owners will have the Fairline brand name, which would have a value.

Reading the SS report & Princess moving to larger boats, the market for mid-size appears to have shrunk, which is exactly the market Fairline are in without the facilities or R&D to produce larger craft, unless they can take the Fairline brand to SS or Princess etc, who have the capital & facilities to take that brand into another market like semi displacement?? (Azi have done it)

It's not good for us the customer base for mid-size, competition is being lost, prices will rise, especially compared to 2014 where I heard of some crazy reductions to shift production. I hope Fairline continue and find a place in the market suited to their new bespoke building plan.
 
curiouskb said:
Surprised F/L being such an icon brand has so few employee. I was told Princess has around 2,000 employees!
Click to expand...

I think people here are looking to much into employee figures.
You can work with 100 fixed employee, and be stable more then Princess and Sunseeker if your business plan revolves around such numbers.
If Fairline wants to build to order (semi-custom) form it might just go into that.
 
Several people have referred to the mid sized market shrinking.

Where exactly are these figures coming from? I'm not sure this is the case. It may be that Fairline's production is shrinking but that's because their designs aren't competitive. The European builders seem to be throwing out boats with gay abandon and Princess seem happy to invest in new models even when their existing one's aren't bad.

The move to larger boats for Sunseeker and Princesss should be seen as complimentary to their smaller fleet, not as a replacement.

I still maintain there is a future for Fairline without exceeding 78 feet. Concentrate on attracting new customers rather than worrying about losing the odd customer who's boating journey takes them over 78 ft.

Henry :)
 
henryf said:
The move to larger boats for Sunseeker and Princesss should be seen as complimentary to their smaller fleet, not as a replacement.
Click to expand...

I don't think I imagined it (I can't find a link) but I believe SS have now stopped building Portofino 40's as they are an unprofitable distraction.

henryf said:
I still maintain there is a future for Fairline without exceeding 78 feet. Concentrate on attracting new customers rather than worrying about losing the odd customer who's boating journey takes them over 78 ft.
Click to expand...

I agree and hope so. Hunton are still making boats in modest quantities (presumably at a profit) so it can be done.
 
petem said:
I agree and hope so. Hunton are still making boats in modest quantities (presumably at a profit) so it can be done.
Click to expand...


Yes but on a much much smaller scale... i believe they are making significantly less than 20 boats per year and the new build prices are eye watering.

The profile of a Hunton buyer tends to one of two people...

An enthusiast who is prepared to put up with the compromises for the sake of having a very fast and great sea boat. or,

Someone who has enough month to think that £500K is pocket change...

I don't believe the market sector that Fairline boats sits is not sufficiently different to the competition to allow them to operate in this manner.

i hope there is a bright future for Fairline as they make a great boat and have a strong following. i continue to hanker after a T47 to laze away the days in the med!!
 
jrudge said:
That make about 80 boats. Not all boats are equal ( far from it ) that give about £250k of labour per unit. Throw in s lot of grp , engines , generators and a million other bits. Emm don't want to be a boat builder !
Click to expand...
Good analysis J. In industrial terms it just shows how inefficient the boat building industry is. Yeah you're right it's a horrible industry to be in. Highly cyclical market, highly discretionary purchasing, huge fixed costs, huge working capital and marginal profits. Not an industry I would want to sink (!) any money into
 
henryf said:
Several people have referred to the mid sized market shrinking.
Click to expand...
I dont think it is Henry. IMHO what it means is that the mid market is too competitive and those companies based in countries with high labour costs cannot compete against companies based in lower labour cost countries, at least for the volumes that they can manufacture. Above 60-70ft, there are fewer competitors with low labour costs so the manufacturers with high labour costs stand a chance of making a profit in this sector. Also of course, in this sector customers are less price sensitive and more brand and quality sensitive

If there is a future in the mid market for Fairline, they will probably have to look at outsourcing the more labour intensive parts of the manufacturing process eg hull moulding
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top