Fairline or Princess?

[jfm]

They do send factory folks out to the Med.

I know you get the same support from Fairline but I just wanted to make the point that Princess matches it.

Good stuff. Fair point then: princess after sales help is very good too. I think we've definitely established that P and F can both provide a good all round package and the choice is a fine one of personal choice. BMW v merc analogy seems to be right

I hope the sun is still out there hurricane. I got to antibes last night and it is hot and sunny, and very busy with boats going out of the port this morning

 

[jfm]

As I understand things Princess sales are part of Princess.

I looked into this properly. Princess Motor Yacht Sales (by which I mean Swanwick and Plymouth dealers and several others incl in the Med; owners of www.princess.co.uk website) is NOT owned by Princess the yacht builder

The Princess Motor Yacht Sales dealership is owned by the Whale family 85%, of which Peter Whale owns 75% and his two sons 5% each. The other 15% is owned by two non-Whale directors. All according to the share register, which of course shows legal not beneficial ownership but gut feel tells you in this case they are the same. The Whale family's primary business for many years has been car dealerships, Ryland/Rybrook, which owns Toyota and Lexus dealers among others

So dealing with Princess Sales in Swanwick to buy a Princess is exactly the same in concept as dealing with Essex Boatyards to buy a Fairline, unless you conclude from the evidence in this thread that the Barke brothers might be, er, more candid regarding their ownership

There is nothing wrong with this. I mean, it's perfectly ok imho to buy through a non-builder owned independent dealership (I'd argue that fnacially it can improve your position). I'm just recording the facts here (and mjf did mention this already above; I've merely checked it at Co House etc)

As an anecdotal aside the Barke family was also in cars before boats (though they have been in boats way longer than the Whales'). The grandfather of the EBY 4 brothers (Allen Barke) was CEO of Ford UK in the 60s, reporting to 'Enry Ford II himself. He was a mancunian and the Barke family only moved to Essex because of the Ford/Dagenham connection.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Interesting info, jfm and it bears out what I was saying before in that there is no more security in dealing with what purports to be a manufacturer owned sales operation than an independent dealer. Obviously if PMYS got into financial difficulties, the hope would be that Princess would step in to bail them out but there would be no obligation on behalf of Princess to do so

 

[mjf]

it has ever been thus....factory ownership one thing, PMYS another entity

 

[jfm]

Interesting info, jfm and it bears out what I was saying before in that there is no more security in dealing with what purports to be a manufacturer owned sales operation than an independent dealer. Obviously if PMYS got into financial difficulties, the hope would be that Princess would step in to bail them out but there would be no obligation on behalf of Princess to do so

I'd argue there's more security Mike. Say you buy a Fairline from Essex: if Essex goes bust there is a resonable expectation that FL would wholly or partially rescue deposit-paid customers. Just as Sunseeker did a few years ago when their big dealer busted. If FL went bust you have a claim agianst Essex. Thus, to lose all your money, BOTH have to go bust

In contrast, if you buy direct from builder and they go bust there is no-one to rescue you. Only ONE party has to go bust for you to lose your money

This analysis doesn't apply generally becuase dealers are so thinly capitalised that the layer of protection they add is neither here nor there. But EBY is a big business and has deeper pockets than your average boat dealer

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I'd argue there's more security Mike. Say you buy a Fairline from Essex: if Essex goes bust there is a resonable expectation that FL would wholly or partially rescue deposit-paid customers.

Just like they did with Peters?

Actually I was referring to sales operations who purport to be manufacturer owned like PMYS. But yes I do agree buying direct from the builder may carry as much risk as buying from a dealer. I think the only thing you can say is that whichever company you place your order with, ensure as far as you can that that company has substantial assets, a good reputation and a proven track record

 

[jfm]

Just like they did with Peters?

I'm not following your argument mike. At the time they went down, Peters wasn't a FL dealer. FL terminated them soon aafter the 3i MBO. They were Azimut, Sealine, Island Packet, Rodman and others, iirc, though I might be a bit wrong on that list. But they were definitely not a FL dealer and had iirc about 2 stock Fairlines left which were physical stock so no customer should have had a big deposit on them without ownership

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I'm not following your argument mike. At the time they went down, Peters wasn't a FL dealer. FL terminated them soon aafter the 3i MBO. They were Azimut, Sealine, Island Packet, Rodman and others, iirc, though I might be a bit wrong on that list. But they were definitely not a FL dealer and had iirc about 2 stock Fairlines left which were physical stock so no customer should have had a big deposit on them without ownership

Ooops yes you're right. I stand corrected

 

[oceanfroggie]

This might seem a daft question, but would folks who keep their boats on the med not also consider local med manufacturers in terms of closer proximity to their service and maintenance facilities?

 

[MapisM]

Actually they do: Deleted User himself, or Paulineb and recently BartW are some examples popping to mind.
And I met various Brits who keep their Azimut, San Lorenzo, Ferretti or whatever in the Med.
I suppose that Brit builders are more frequently debated around here just because the forumites are not a "representative sample" of Med boaters, so to speak.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

This might seem a daft question, but would folks who keep their boats on the med not also consider local med manufacturers in terms of closer proximity to their service and maintenance facilities?

Thats one reason I've had 2 Ferrettis; their service outlets are all over the Med and actually, my current marina in Croatia has a Ferretti service outlet located there and is only about 100nm across the Adriatic from Ferretti's main factory. Having said that I avoid using Ferretti service outlets, unless I really have to, because their prices are just stupid

 

[mjf]

Ooops yes you're right. I stand corrected

But.....Offshore marine and Marine sales were dealers as opposed to distributors I guess which is what Peters was too iirc

 

[jfm]

But.....Offshore marine and Marine sales were dealers as opposed to distributors I guess which is what Peters was too iirc

I'm being a bit thick probably, but I don't get your point mjf and I dont get the difference between dealers and distributors :?

 

[jfm]

This might seem a daft question, but would folks who keep their boats on the med not also consider local med manufacturers in terms of closer proximity to their service and maintenance facilities?

I think most buyers consider all the brands before choosing. The boaters you refer to are mainly based in Spain, Balearics and SofF, and none of those is really local to W Italy boatbuilding land, or E Italy in the case of Ferretti and some others. Furthermore, the need for interaction with builder during commissioning and snagging is 1/10th of the interaction during semi custom build, so often it can make sense to choose a builder near home and who will fly to the boat for snagging

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I'm being a bit thick probably, but I don't get your point mjf and I dont get the difference between dealers and distributors :?

I think the point was that Offshore Marine and Marine Sales were 2 Fairline dealers that Fairline didn't see fit to bail out when they got into difficulty. As for the dealer v distributor thing, I guess mjf is pointing to the difference between Peters and other Fairline dealers in that Peters was an exclusive Fairline distributor through which all Fairline products had to be sold for certain markets, including the UK, whereas the other 2 mentioned were local dealers

 

[mjf]

Tks

Exactly right - there is previous here that seemed to have been forgotten.


I'm surprised too that the whole SS set up has not really been brought up - 'cos over the years it was never clear who was what. Certainly when I did get a handle on it - it was all change the next month.

I think the point was that Offshore Marine and Marine Sales were 2 Fairline dealers that Fairline didn't see fit to bail out when they got into difficulty. As for the dealer v distributor thing, I guess mjf is pointing to the difference between Peters and other Fairline dealers in that Peters was an exclusive Fairline distributor through which all Fairline products had to be sold for certain markets, including the UK, whereas the other 2 mentioned were local dealers

 

[BartW]

Thats one reason I've had 2 Ferrettis; their service outlets are all over the Med and actually, my current marina in Croatia has a Ferretti service outlet located there and is only about 100nm across the Adriatic from Ferretti's main factory. Having said that I avoid using Ferretti service outlets, unless I really have to, because their prices are just stupid

I can't believe that this is a reason why you've had 2 ferrettis Mike
I think that choosing a boat is mainly a love affair, and then you try to find "objective" arguments to reinforce your decision.
when the manufacturing or service outlets for the boat are nearby, that gives a confdence feeling, but further then that has no advantages, just like you admid at the end of your post.
Boat fitters you can find everywhere, engine or good technical guy's thats another story,
but if the factory is nearby is no guaranty for good and regular maintenance / service,
all IMHO of course

its pure coincidence that the Canados Factory is in the same street as the marina where I found Bleu Angel

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I can't believe that this is a reason why you've had 2 ferrettis Mike
I think that choosing a boat is mainly a love affair, and then you try to find "objective" arguments to reinforce your decision.
when the manufacturing or service outlets for the boat are nearby, that gives a confdence feeling, but further then that has no advantages, just like you admid at the end of your post.
Boat fitters you can find everywhere, engine or good technical guy's thats another story,
but if the factory is nearby is no guaranty for good and regular maintenance / service,
all IMHO of course

its pure coincidence that the Canados Factory is in the same street as the marina where I found Bleu Angel

No of course not, BartW. I said it was one reason. Yes of course, the main reason for us buying a Ferretti was that we like them and they suit our kind of boating but certainly, when I heard that the Croatian Ferretti dealer had 4 service outlets covering the whole coast of Croatia, it gave me some more confidence to go ahead with the purchase

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

To be honest I have never used dealers much in the past for service or parts requirements.
I have had two Gobbi's in the past snce September 1994. Both where both used altough the first was only 3 months old.
When I bought the first a 27 Sport I used to deal with the factory as we had no dealer locally, and that was always top notch service from them.

If I compare to what other friends service was from represented brands locally, I think the service I have been given was way much better.
Now since 05 we have an Atlantis dealer and in 08 I changed the boat to a bigger Gobbi who since 03 have become rebranded as Atlantis under the Azimut Group.
The service is still as good.
May be the fact that I speak Italian helps but as far as I am concerned a company can be thousands of miles away but if they want to help they can always do it. More so today with flights running everywhere.

ps. Obviously the above relates to my local experience where new boat sales numbers are very small compared to what a British or Italian (big country) dealer sells.

For your information I have ordered everything from Gobbi in the past from a bimini/canopy, cleats, springs, latches, fuel tank sensors, electrical items etc