Fairline moving forward

[henryf]

One of the great things about the British Motor Yacht show now in it’s third year is the ability for boat owners like me to get some quality 1 on 1 time with key players from the different manufacturers. London and Southampton are all well and good but you share the pontoons and exhibition halls with tens of thousands of people many of whom are never going to be realistic buyers. If you do happen to catch a glimpse of a CEO it will be fleeting.

The Swanwick show is a very different beast, laid back, no goons to get past in order to look around boats and everyone there is a boat owner. So it was that I found myself onboard a Fairline 65 talking to Colin Sykes and Douglas Culverwell from Fairline, CEO and Regional Director respectively.

We currently have a Princess 50 flybridge and prior to that had a Princess 42 flybridge so are keen advocates of the brand but previous boats include a Phantom 42 and a Targa 35 so there is a bit of an affinity to Fairline. He won’t recall but Colin and I spoke briefly at the London boatshow, it was Thursday night and all the manufacturers were holding court giving away free booze like it was water so everyone was ‘emotional”. This time I was on the Princess Rose scented lemonade - actually I lie, the girls behind reception managed to grab me a diet coke.

I had snuck away from Princess hospitality and was looking round the Squadron 65. Colin introduced himself. I spent a bit of time explaining why the last two boats hadn’t been Fairlines. Compared to Princess I think Fairline have lost their way a bit in the 60 foot and under battle. The Squadron 65 we were on however was actually rather nice. It doesn’t have that wall of glass that personifies the current Princess range but there are some redeeming features. The lack of glass means more storage, particularly in the galley and the engine room is palatial allowing access to all main services. This is in stark contrast to some Princess models where even a marque fan like me has to conceed that changing an air filter turns into a mammoth task as you negotiate the air conditioning units bolted on top of the engine. In fact 10 minutes of my conversation with Douglas took place in the 65’s engine room such is its volume and height.

Discussions turned to the impending 53 footers due from Fairline starting with the 53 GT http://www.fairline.com/en/boats/targa/|GT 53

I think the 53 GT might make it’s debut at Southampton then later on we will see the Squadron 53 flybridge http://www.fairline.com/en/boats/squadron/53

Both these new models will go head to head with current Princess 52 boats which is relevant on two counts. It would be the natural progression for us and the Princess 52 flybridge is, in my humble opinion, a weak link in the model line-up. The new 53 GT will have a harder job because the Princess V52 is a very polished offering if you like sports boats.

Whilst I may question the design and layout of some of the Fairline models no one has ever questioned their build quality so all it would take is a killer design and they are back in the game for people like me. There is no questioning manufacturer commitment to customers, they are a smaller outfit than Princess or Sunseeker but hungry to grow.

On paper the 53 foot boats show promise. The devil is of course in the detail so judgement will have to wait until we’ve all had a poke around but I’m cautiously optimistic. Variety must surely be a good thing ?

Thanks to both Colin and Douglas for spending time chatting.

Henry

 

[jrudge]

Henry ... Something nice about Fairline ... the Princess Lemonade must have been good!

We have an S65 and in Cala Dor there are 5 of them, three of which have been delivered in the past 12 months. As I understand it the S65 and T48 are the strong sellers ( a new T48 arrived last time I was down). The S60 has too many levels ( which you pointed out in a post and I could never get out of my mind so we cancelled the S60 and bought and S65 ( true story).

The S65 is a nice boat with a great flybridge and relatively flat floors. The competitors have more glass in the saloon as you say. Now I have never had more glass in the saloon so I don't speak from a balanced position, but storage is useful and I am a bit uncertain as to how good an idea large expanses of glass are in the med. We typically have the blinds down ( Venetians) to temper the brightness in any event, but there is little doubting that glass has plenty of boat show WOW.

The S65 had a pretty significant overhaul about 3 years ago when it went from 3 to 4 cabins and an improved master, amongst many other changes. This helps sales one assumes, and Prin / Sun / Fair all come from a very similar parts bin. There is now a trent towards lighter "fabrics" on wall panels down below as opposed to wood veneer which I quite like which FL have yet to embrace.

Without Boats.co.uk selling Fairline ( they sold a lot of them ...) I am not really sure what the future holds as volume I believe will sufferer massively, and with factories and staff you need volume to generate cash to pay the bills.

The reality is that new models give people a reason to upgrade. They feel they have the "old model" and is not a bad incentive to justify an upgrade using man maths. We will see. Boat building is a capital intensive business and new models take a chunk of that capital. Fairline are making the right noises, but the Shadow I think we can all agree was a bit of an embarrassment and they need new models to start hitting the market.

I like their boats and wish them well. Variety is a good thing I agree.

 

[bvickers]

Henry
Thought provoking thread - good stuff.
I also am a Princess owner (P50 - same as yours) and prior to that, I owned a 45 Flybridge and must say we've been very happy with them both. Aside from the boats themselves, the service and support from their main distributor (Princess Motor Yacht Sales) has always been top notch. It seems to be a common theme with Princess owners; the service they have received has generally been excellent. However, having had very little need to call on their services over the last few years, I did recently for something - admittedly - minor and frankly, the service was poor - in the end they just simply didn't respond and I fixed the thing myself.
Point is, the boats are one thing but another factor in the equation is that of service and support and although I wouldn't want to judge Princess's support on one poor episode - especially after years of good service - if they let this important area slip, then people like me who would have previously not seriously considered other marques will be inclined to at least look at other offerings and Fairline have to be a real contender...

 

[henryf]

Henry ... Something nice about Fairline ... the Princess Lemonade must have been good!

I just say it as I see it, be that right or wrong.

The 65 is a vastly superior boat to the 60 so you've done well there. It doesn't help that the Princess 60 is a bit like the 43 (previously the 42) in that whilst it doesn't have any wow features (other than the sense of volume and light), it does everything really well. Would I buy a Squadron 65? Yes, Potentially I would. I also keep the Venetian blinds angled a bit because I don't want to be in a goldfish bowl, it's why we struggle with Sports boats. That and the fact I'm getting old

I also agree that the T48 stands pretty close scrutiny so it doesn't surprise me to hear sales are strong.

I suspect and genuinely hope that the revised 53 footers will see another revenue stream open up.

I'm not an expert but it looks like Oxford Investments thought they could wave a magic wand, turn a profit then get out. They didn't spend any money on product development and failed to grasp the nature of boat building. If you want to see £10 million in three years start off with £20 million today.

Designing new boats is expensive and it will be several years before your investment pays off. The design process, marketing, waiting for people to decide they need a new boat and then the build process before finally you get your money. Then you need to sell a few units to recoup costs. Fairline need to keep selling what is selling whilst slowly going through the line up and doing a bit of tidying up.

As for the split from Essex, that's not something I can comment on. The new dealers have some big boots to fill and they may find that the deals cut were the best available rather than an easy option. You've either got to make your product so good people won't go anywhere else (impossible with boats that are always a compromise), or you've got to tempt them with a bit of love.

Let's see what the future holds.

 

[jrudge]

As for the split from Essex, that's not something I can comment on. The new dealers have some big boots to fill and they may find that the deals cut were the best available rather than an easy option. You've either got to make your product so good people won't go anywhere else (impossible with boats that are always a compromise), or you've got to tempt them with a bit of love.
.

Boats.co.uk I believe sought to optimise every deal, but with their combination of low overheads and ability to take PX (on which they make a profit) they had more flexibility than most. Boat buyers of new boats of significant value ( i.e. 300k + ( not ribs etc) are relatively few and far between. I don't know how many there are per annum - 200? 300? 400? ( new boat buyers, not second hand) so given the supply of those people is limited some dealers are more determined than others.

Also with Boats.co.uk you are dealing in the main with Directors or people that own the place, so they are not driven by the vagaries of a commission scheme or similar, but "what do i do that gets me the deal and turns in a profit".

We will see!

 

[benjenbav]

Henry, I thought this thread was really interesting but just wondered, when you mention the 53 as a natural progression, what you get from a 53 foot boat that you don't from a 50. I'm guessing maybe 10% more volume and, obviously, newer design.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the need to change because of all sorts of reasons including just wanting something different even though you still like the current item.

Just curious, I guess...

 

[jfm]

Interesting thoughts Henry and I generally agree

Princess are very strong on glazing and accommodation, among many other things. Fairline are strong on engine room space among other things, but that eats accom space AOTBE. There is no doubt they need to refresh their model line up if they want to attract customers (including those already steeped in the brand). And a nice quick mod would be a hard top on the squadron 65, retrofittable so the retro is indistinguishable from the factory install as they did with squadron 78

All boat buying feels a compromise of course, until someone brings out a boat that ticks say 95+% of the boxes not 80%

Fairline are owned by Better Capital's fund 1. Oxford was the firm that bought Sealine

 

[henryf]

Henry, I thought this thread was really interesting but just wondered, when you mention the 53 as a natural progression, what you get from a 53 foot boat that you don't from a 50. I'm guessing maybe 10% more volume and, obviously, newer design.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the need to change because of all sorts of reasons including just wanting something different even though you still like the current item.

Just curious, I guess...

Purely age of boat. We kept the P42 for 5 years and it's still going strong so changing isn't essential but 2017... Who knows ?

I've also got half an eye on something a little bigger for extended cruising which would start with a 6 or possibly even a 7.

Henry

 

[jfm]

a 7.

Go on! :encouragement::encouragement:

 

[henryf]

Go on! :encouragement::encouragement:

I need to get all the ducks lined up first!

Henry

 

[henryf]

Henry
Thought provoking thread - good stuff.
I also am a Princess owner (P50 - same as yours) and prior to that, I owned a 45 Flybridge and must say we've been very happy with them both. Aside from the boats themselves, the service and support from their main distributor (Princess Motor Yacht Sales) has always been top notch. It seems to be a common theme with Princess owners; the service they have received has generally been excellent. However, having had very little need to call on their services over the last few years, I did recently for something - admittedly - minor and frankly, the service was poor - in the end they just simply didn't respond and I fixed the thing myself.
Point is, the boats are one thing but another factor in the equation is that of service and support and although I wouldn't want to judge Princess's support on one poor episode - especially after years of good service - if they let this important area slip, then people like me who would have previously not seriously considered other marques will be inclined to at least look at other offerings and Fairline have to be a real contender...

I nearly started another thread to respond because I think you have raised a very interesting point and it is a topic close to my heart.

At every boat show for as long as I can remember I have badgered Princess to sort themselves out and offer a one stop shop for on-going maintenance. "It's coming" I am told but the reality is it isn't. The boat world is miles behind the times. Imagine having to undertake a full engineers report prior to buying you next car from the main dealer. Putting down a 10% deposit prior to a test drive, having no maintenance programme available or parts supply in place.

The "S" in PMYS stands for sales, not service. They sell you a boat and to be fair are very good when it comes to dealing with any problems you might have. But ultimately they are in sales and any work they do is geared around pre-sales commissioning and after sales warranty. They seem pretty decent when it comes to bits and pieces outside the traditional warranty period but you do feel that you are asking favours as time goes on.

Where there is a gaping hole is on-going routine, charged for support. Engine servicing, ancillary servicing, hull maintenance and parts supply. We shouldn't have to run the gauntlet of third party suppliers or try to track down the manufacturers for any parts that fail - many of whom tell you they can only supply to Princess. Only yesterday there was a post asking for the location of the power roof control unit on a 2012 boat, there are hundreds of systems and service parts which Princess know like the back of their hand but which we have to go on a vertical learning curve to discover. Yes, you can phone "your" man to ask but you're asking a favour all the time.

We should simply call up the "concierge" hotline (they always seem to be called concierge these days) and Princess get things sorted. They know the factory, they know what usually goes wrong and they know who the good guys out there are. We service one boat a year, they might be looking after a few hundred. Ultimately it's a revenue stream, we aren't expecting charity.

It would also mean that there is no excuse for the standard of boats not to be maintained making part exchanges much easier. I spoke at length this weekend on the subject of second hand boats and Princess do want them. Sadly the cloak and dagger pricing which the industry seems so desperate to maintain makes buying into stock all but impossible. When actual selling price is hidden behind manufacturers RRP and brokers la la land prices a trade bid looks like daylight robbery when in fact it probably isn't. It's just that no one ever uses realistic numbers and none of us have a clue what boats are actually worth.

As you quite rightly say if the whole ownership experience is turn key you would think twice before jumping ship to another marque. As it is we are all on our own once the warranty period runs out and the bloke servicing your Volvo, CAT, MAN or MTU engines doesn't give a monkeys who built the boat so long as he can get to all the vital parts. As him (or her) which boats are best and they will judge from the engine room not the master cabin...

Henry

 

[Lamapost]

what was the headroom on the 65 Squadron engine room?

 

[jrudge]

Left field question but ... I am 6ft 3 and as far as I recall i could stand upright. Mine was a2014 boat