Fairline cutting staff

From the 1st paragraph..Sunseeker could do better on the beading... But the rest of it was aimed at Princess... 2/10 for effort I think

As far as the speed goes, no I disagree.. Max 34kts with a cruising speed of 25 kts....With the CATS although this is IMO are not the best engines...If you going to be spending a vast sum of money on your boat then its MTU every time..!!

SS do customise 47ft and above...All their range is build to order, non to stock...

Did you vist the SIBS, if you had then you would see that all their boats were near damit the same...Just in different sizes..

Check out the 130p on the SS website, that is worth getting excited about...

Have you heard on the grapevine that SS are having problems like the others?
 
I totally agree...

Although I have aslo mentioned this to another member JFM the main reason why Sunseeker is holding tight is because they do not build to stock...They simply build to order..PAY AS YOU GO

And this shows they are growing, they have recently opened a new factory in Poole and have, I believe a large part of the old Naval base @ Portland....What an opportunity?
 
Hi JFM,

Very interested in your Manhattan 70 information. 21 knots on twin MAN 1360s would be a disaster! Here they claim 32 knors:

http://www.boatshop24.co.uk/13119057-Sunseeker-Manhattan-70.html

Original information with the highest-powered engine option (2 x 1550 MTU) was 36 knots, though now I can only see 34 knots on the SS website.

There are a couple of 70's in HK, and haven't heard anything bad about them, but am always interested in new info. Thanks.
 
I take it you are connected with Sunseeker in some way? If not, maybe you could fill in your profile a bit more. Let's start with a general point. My experience of manufacturing high value capital equipment in other industries tells me that products built to stock on a production line are invariably of higher quality than products built to order. Firstly the production workers become practiced doing their particular tasks and, as we know, practice makes perfect and, secondly, components can be selected for their suitability rather than availability. There are many other reasons why production line products tend to be better than one off products but I won't bore you with them here. Having said this, I very much doubt that Sunseeker have a totally order driven production process, certainly for their mainstream models. More likely, they have a flexible process which allows them to bring forward boats that have been ordered and delay boats that haven't
In any case, my observation at boat shows is that Sunseeker's products are not of higher quality than the likes of Fairline and Princess. As jfm has pointed out, the quality of their joinery is probably below that of Fairline.
As for 'customer focussed input', all I can say is that I was looking at a Manhattan 52 at SIBS this year, the design of which has changed slightly from the Man 50 to incorporate a silly and IMHO dangerous bench seat on the port side of the saloon overhanging the steps down to the accomodation. When I asked whether the seat could be changed for a cupboard or at least a safety rail put in front of it, I was told that the factory won't change the standard build
Sunseeker are an excellent company and given that the UK's manufacturing industry is all but disappeared, we should applaud them for their success but no way are they ahead of Fairline and Princess when it comes to quality
 
Spot on comments Deleted User, I was going to throw in my 2 pence along the same lines.
It's just worth mentioning that you're associating the concepts of "production lines/one off" to "built to stock/built to order", which is not necessarily true.
I mean, it is in the case of one off products obviously (they're never built to stock), but the best builders can use production lines AND still build to order - at least to some extent.

On a side note, if the 'hattan '70 performances are really as discussed, I'm wondering which kind of provisions for potential liabilities they should include in their B/S...
I know the disclaimers and all that, but that's not far from selling a boat which doesn't float!!! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
As far as the speed goes, no I disagree.. Max 34kts with a cruising speed of 25 kts....With the CATS

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no experience of the boat with the Cat C32s. I was talking about the Man1360s as I said. You've kinda avoided my question: answer me straight - what speed does it do with the Man1360s? (And, are you connected with s/s?)
 
You're wasting time with this poster, methink.
If what you're saying re. the performance with MAN is correct, and I take it for granted, there is no way the same hull can cruise 62% faster with 14% more power.
Neither on earth nor in heavens.
 
Do you know any more about the issue with the hattan 70? It seems baffling that Sunseeker could have got it so wrong on the hull design, with all their experience? As Mapis said, it would surely be grounds to reject the boat?
 
Yup. I'm only reporting personal experience from one man1360 which I drove for 20nm last month. The owner (whom I've known for years) was with me so I didn't do anything stupid like leaving the handbrake on. The boat was light - 5 persons on board. Max was 21kts, de facto cruise speed 15kts. He says it has been like this all summer, since new, and is disappointed. Sunseeker have been all over the boat and their conclusion is "well, er, that's how it is".

I'd bet a £10 that most new launches of the hattan 70 will have the Cat/MTU 1500hps. Salesmen will have been told to steer customers to those engines, I guess. We'll see...

I found OP's answer strangely obfuscatory, like a good politician would behave. He mentioed higher speeds but then he said only with the Cats, which wasn't what I was asking!
 
[ QUOTE ]
There are a couple of 70's in HK, and haven't heard anything bad about them

[/ QUOTE ]

That's cos Gordon would allow anythibng bad to be said about them. He's a good salesman /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif. If you find the owner of a MAN1360 version, I'd love to know what speed he/she gets.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Do you know any more about the issue with the hattan 70? It seems baffling that Sunseeker could have got it so wrong on the hull design, with all their experience? As Mapis said, it would surely be grounds to reject the boat?

[/ QUOTE ]

very possible as in most models Sunsseeker just past cut add reduce, not only them by the way, but I think the British are the biggest abusers of this system
but saying all this I still think that the Man 70 have some other problems, like props or greabox, the usuall problems some British boats encounter in the med, then it depends how good the agent who sold the boat is, Mapis says 40% reduction in top speed is way too much
as for prod or custom I am pretty surprised SS said no to remove a bench to Deleted User, very dissaoppointing for a boat at an overprice 1.000.000 EU + motoryacht
at this stage better buy a cheaper Cranchi or Beneteau where at least they say there production is production, and it is not the other way round
 
The large majority of Sunseekers go to the med, they probably sell more 50' - 100' boats in the med that anyone except maybe Azimut? So I don't think it's because it was designed for colder waters. Do you have a downer on British boats, it sometimes comes across that way?
 
[ QUOTE ]
I still think that the Man 70 have some other problems, like props or greabox

[/ QUOTE ]Do you mean just the one jfm is talking about? Maybe, 'dunno.
But if not - as the builder conclusions he is reporting would lead to believe - do you think that 200x2 additional ponies alone could make a 13 odd knots miracle?
They might well push their customers to go for the 2x1,550, but if they get anything more than 4 or 5 additional knots I'll eat my hat with no mustard.
 
no downer on British boats, not my preferred boats that is is as the opposite in this forums, but there is nice designs coming from the UK, and they are generally good builds

yeah I mean the one of JFM friends, for e.g. a friend of mine took delivery once of a F37 Phantom with Cats 306hp the boat was doing 21 knots max, reason was they installed a set of bigger propellers
the engine HP difference in this case want make more the 1.5 or 2.5 knots more, and I can gurantee this
Pershing 64 has both options MAN 1360 gives 41 knots and MAN 1550 gives 46 knots as declared by builder, Pershing is about 5 tons heavier, but Pershing has surface drives
lets say 15% difference the most... I think its propellers or gearbox
SS estimated 36 knots with the 1550hp so 30 knots should be an easy target with the 1360, which to my knowledge is also a similar engine to the MAN 1550
I think this owner should get hold of SS and MAN to resolve this problem before the guranttee expires and the arrivederci Roma....
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I still think that the Man 70 have some other problems, like props or greabox

[/ QUOTE ]Do you mean just the one jfm is talking about? Maybe, 'dunno.
But if not - as the builder conclusions he is reporting would lead to believe - do you think that 200x2 additional ponies alone could make a 13 odd knots miracle?
They might well push their customers to go for the 2x1,550, but if they get anything more than 4 or 5 additional knots I'll eat my hat with no mustard.

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed on the 400hp will not make +13kts. No need to eat your hat

This in't a gearbox or props problem. It would have been fixed if it were. The engines are developing the bhp and burning the right fuel for that bhp, and the props are taking the bhp. No, it's a much more fundamental mistake imho. I've driven the boat 20nm and seen it myself and read the MAN electronic gauges to see the fuel burn etc etc.

It could be unique to this boat. My only firm comment on this is if you buy a hattan 70 take a good seatrial first
 
Didn't the owner of Man70 think about taking legal action against SS? I believe that in most commercial ship build contracts, the design speed is written into the contract and if the ship doesn't achieve it's design speed on trials, the builder is in breach of the contract. I know that pleasure boat sales contracts are not written like this but surely SS will have stated estimated speeds in a brochure or spec sheet so, at the very least, are guilty of misrepresentation. On that basis, surely there were grounds for rejecting the boat under consumer laws?
What was the prob with the boat? Was it achieving max rpm at 21kts or not? Surely, if it was only getting 21kts when it was new, then after 6 months of Med fouling, it will be a lot worse, maybe 16kts max? If I'd have spent a couple of million squids on a Man 70 which only did 21kts clean, I'd have handed the keys back and asked for another one
 
[ QUOTE ]
I'd have handed the keys back and asked for another one

[/ QUOTE ]Well I would have neither taken delivery of the boat, nor paid the final installment, to start with.
 
[ QUOTE ]
like hull #1 of the 34m which has an atrocious fit out
Not saying there is anything wrong with s/s, just that they are not "far higher" than competition

[/ QUOTE ]

reading some nice points in this post...
you are right in many of the things but SS can be forgiven here...
in my boat show experience I have seen always hull ones with problems, so they can be given a break IMO especially on a 34 metre boat, where there is loads to be done
I recall it was also in delay and SS wanted to show by force at the london show ...
I have terrible expericences from renowned builders in the first three hulls, some had also window frame going loose and sticked with silicone for the show and not to go deeper and deeper a lot worse stuff then this etc etc
but in my experience I can list nearly all builders in this list, with few if any acceptions

my best experience on hull no.1 was an Uniesse 70 in 2000 that really had noting or little to improve for me, but then the builder gave me a list and showed what is not 100% impressive to say the least /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
 
Yep, it is all in discussion.

Yes it is achieving max/correct rpm so it is not overpropped, and fuel burn is correct so the props are taking the horsepower ie not too fine pitch, and the fuel is being burnt cos exhaust gas is ok

I can understnad your "I can't believe" it attitude. I was the same, and when I drove it I could still hardly believe it (and perhaps wouldn't believe it if I heard it 2nd hand). It is baffling. Sunseeker and MAN have of course investigated but no cure
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top