Failed toast

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davidivorwynphillips

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Has anybody tried the force 4 stove top toaster (http://www.force4.co.uk/force-4-gas-ring-toaster-in-stainless-steel.html#.VZuknhtVh8N)? This is basically a box and mesh that sits on top of the gas burner

I tried one last month but could not get it to work. Each time it burnt the edge of the bread without toasting the centre. I've tried different types of bread, different gas settings but nothing works. A waste of £20 - now sitting in the bilges.

Ideas as to what I can do with it - kitchen sieve, fishing aid.....
 
davidivorwynphillips said:
Has anybody tried the force 4 stove top toaster (http://www.force4.co.uk/force-4-gas-ring-toaster-in-stainless-steel.html#.VZuknhtVh8N)? This is basically a box and mesh that sits on top of the gas burner

I tried one last month but could not get it to work. Each time it burnt the edge of the bread without toasting the centre. I've tried different types of bread, different gas settings but nothing works. A waste of £20 - now sitting in the bilges.

Ideas as to what I can do with it - kitchen sieve, fishing aid.....
Click to expand...

Very coarse filter?


Of more importance ( as I was going to buy one as I miss my toast) - do any stove top toasters actually work?
 
Many years ago I tried these pyramid toasters and all I did was burn the crusts and run out of gas - they simply don't get hot enough! I'm amazed people are still selling them a lifetime later. The only toaster, other than a grille, that works on a similar principle is the type of flat basket that goes under the cover on an Arga stove top. Perhaps this is the example that should be emulated in designing a toaster for a gas ring? No matter how clunky, a toaster that works would sell to many boat owners - even those with grilles that require an individual; slice to be turned and rotated a dozen times to brown it.

Rob.
 
This kind works...

FT08S1m.jpg
 
davidivorwynphillips said:
Has anybody tried the force 4 stove top toaster (http://www.force4.co.uk/force-4-gas-ring-toaster-in-stainless-steel.html#.VZuknhtVh8N)? This is basically a box and mesh that sits on top of the gas burner

I tried one last month but could not get it to work. Each time it burnt the edge of the bread without toasting the centre. I've tried different types of bread, different gas settings but nothing works. A waste of £20 - now sitting in the bilges.

Ideas as to what I can do with it - kitchen sieve, fishing aid.....
Click to expand...

They also sell flat toasters at a quarter of the price and the type I have which is slightly different from the current one does work. As you have discovered the raised type don't - as the test in the mags have found in the past.
 
Designers seem to lack some basic physics training.
The inverse square law: - double the distance from the source and the "signal" goes down to a quarter. Treble the distance and signal is a ninth etc.
So with toasters. If the whole slice of bread isn't equidistant from the heat source (radiant heat) then uneven toasting will result.

I modified my pyramid to a flat, similar to those pictured above, except mine is a sheet stainless rather than mesh. It glows red hot, radiating infra-red onto the toast. One at a time, but perfect toast provided you watch it closely. It doesn't pop up!
 
MM5AHO said:
The inverse square law: - double the distance from the source and the "signal" goes down to a quarter. Treble the distance and signal is a ninth etc.
So with toasters. If the whole slice of bread isn't equidistant from the heat source (radiant heat) then uneven toasting will result.
Click to expand...

The inverse square law is true when the radiating source is a point and radiating equally in all directions. It's very nearly true when the radiating source is very nearly a point compared to the recipient, for example the radiation we receive from the sun. However, a flat hot mesh radiating heat to a slice of bread a couple of centimetres away is not an approximate point source from the viewpoint of the slice of bread. Neither is the hot mesh radiating equally in all directions - being flat little will be radiated sideways. Therefore the power term in a radiated toasting heat transfer law will be less than 2 in the case of one of these devices. The power term will still be greater than 0 however (i.e. no dependence on distance between source and bread) which would be the case for a perfectly formed beam of radiated toasting heat. It's amazing how geeky toasting discussions can be. :)
 
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AngusMcDoon said:
The inverse square law is true when the radiating source is a point and radiating equally in all directions. It's very nearly true when the radiating source is very nearly a point compared to the recipient, for example the radiation we receive from the sun. However, a flat hot mesh radiating heat to a slice of bread a couple of centimetres away is not an approximate point source from the viewpoint of the slice of bread. Neither is the hot mesh radiating equally in all directions - being flat little will be radiated sideways. Therefore the power term in a radiated toasting heat transfer law will be less than 2 in the case of one of these devices. The power term will still be greater than 0 however (i.e. no dependence on distance between source and bread) which would be the case for a perfectly formed beam of radiated toasting heat. It's amazing how geeky toasting discussions can be. :)
Click to expand...

SO does it make good toast ?
 
Anyone remember the Aussie sketch series 'Hogan' with Paul Hogan? One character in there was a low budget kinda guy living in a low budget place with his mate.
I remember one sketch where Hogan makes breakfast: "Mate, d'ya want some toast?"
"Yeah, mate" replies his mate.
Hogan pulls out two slices of bread, slaps them on two nails in the wall, blasts them with a blowtorch, turns em over does it again then says, "Here ya go,mate".

I think there's your answer - get a blowtorch for toasting.
 
AngusMcDoon said:
The inverse square law is true when the radiating source is a point and radiating equally in all directions. It's very nearly true when the radiating source is very nearly a point compared to the recipient, for example the radiation we receive from the sun. However, a flat hot mesh radiating heat to a slice of bread a couple of centimetres away is not an approximate point source from the viewpoint of the slice of bread. Neither is the hot mesh radiating equally in all directions - being flat little will be radiated sideways. Therefore the power term in a radiated toasting heat transfer law will be less than 2 in the case of one of these devices. The power term will still be greater than 0 however (i.e. no dependence on distance between source and bread) which would be the case for a perfectly formed beam of radiated toasting heat. It's amazing how geeky toasting discussions can be. :)
Click to expand...

Are you claiming that increasing the distance between source of IR heat and toast doesn't change the toasting rate?
Its true that the source isn't a point source, but not all that relevant.
Toast at an acute angle to the heat source will toast preferentially at the near point. In the case of the toaster I bought, its original angle was about 60 degrees, so in rough terms one edge was about the width of the slice further away from the heat.
 
MM5AHO said:
Are you claiming that increasing the distance between source of IR heat and toast doesn't change the toasting rate?
Click to expand...

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that the power relationship won't be 2 over the short distance between heat and bread because of the reasons I stated; it will be less. The fact that the heat source is not a point source, or even an approximation over the short distance in a toaster, is relevant. The inverse square law does not apply between 2 flat plates a distance apart which is small relative to the size of the plates. You need the flat plate model. There's a mathematical analysis of toasting, well barbequeing actually, here...

http://www.genuineideas.com/ArticlesIndex/fireAway.html

It's just a bit of nerdy fun. I realize that those stand up type toasters are still carp though, burning one edge and barely warming the opposite side. I have often wondered how much toasting is done by radiation compared to hot gas in hob top toasters anyway.
 
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