Failed survey

langstonelayabout said:
Not being from around here (I'm a sailing sort of person) please check with the vendor or an independent person about these issues.

I had problems selling a boat because the prospective purchaser had sent their surveyor in, all guns blazing. Issues he's identified included evidence of salt water dripping (under the brand new stern gland), rigging age unknown so needs replacing (I had 1 year old rigging with receipt he didn't ask for), malformation of hull under the bow forefoot (I'd had the log paddle wheel fitting removed and professionally glassed up). When I called their surveyor the night before the survey and asked him if he wanted the key to the boat he initially dismissed it as he'd planned to collect it from the boatyard office (who, of course, don't have the key). So much for respected south coast professional surveyor.

So please make sure these issues that are identified in the report exist in real life before you do anything rash like buy or reject the boat. As others have suggested, if the problems are real, discuss with the vendor (through the broker, if appropriate) how he can remedy the concerns himself or via a mechanic. There are very few boats afloat at the moment that don't have something small wrong with them...
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I understand your comments. As the surveyor that reported on my old boat when I sold it said it needed a service. Yet if he had actually looked at the engine oil he would have noticed that I had changed oil and filters a few days before along with work to the leg. All with proof of invoices and receipts. Also he said the wrong anodes fitted. Again all fitted by a highly respected Southampton engineer on the forum.

Back to the current survey. I have full confidence in his report which are accompanied by many photos of the faults raised. This has been forwarded to the broker.
Hopefully he'll get back to me soon with a response.
 
Is it all a big of a game between the seller and buyer with the broker acting as a referee?
Accepting every used boat ( the older to more items ) is gonna have issues .
Some observations and irrelevant like a glassing in a through the hull hole from a redundant fitting , some urgent ish are givens like leaky rams on old outdrives .

Plus many in betweeners .

Language like “ failed “ is not in my view helpful , more like this is what the survey has thrown up , here are the issues .

A,am just thinking I sold my Porto 35 for exactly what was the first figure the broker ask me what I was looking for .
Er with defects .
This is how , he added €1.5 K on for the buyers survey and said with the surveyors fee it’s is best for the buyer to recover , so expect a min chip down of that ,
And the surveyor WILL find his fee back , they all do .
Broker noticed the fire extinguisher was out of date so another €1 K and I said I suspected a or both turbos were ready for a overhaul/ replacement and ideally if I was keeping it replace the starting to corrode risers .
So Broker added another €5K on .Then his condition commission .

So we arrived @ the asking price .
With in 2 weeks it was being surveyed .

Buyers surveyor at the sea trail ( Broker helmed ) notice a bit of turbo lethargy, and of course no paperwork supporting the fire extinguisher .He missed the risers .
So after a one off offer the price resulted in a €4 K reduction it was sold .
The haggling was done within 24 hrs of the survey.Point being broker and myself knew what was coming and adjusted the price up ready for the chip .

So are this seller / broker in the same place ??

Every body happy boat sold , no hassle .

So I would expect the seller here to accept a drop off inline with any quotes , assuming your initial offer which was accepted subject to survey was near the asking price , thus giving latitude for the buyer to recover the survey fees and some wiggle room down for the “ issues “ to where the price should be .

So that’s why asking prices and selling prices for sport cruiser with outdrives are different , perhaps wider gap than a shaft drive because of the far greater potential for let’s call it deferred maintenance.
It’s a fully functioning boat but the buyer jumping on a conveyor belt of maintenance and the seller trying to get off .
It’s just a case of agreeing a price .

If it’s already had a survey then I would expect the same report as those are std issues, not groundbreaking findings.So I would have thought the acceptance of your initial offer was the in full knowledge of a “ failed “ survey coming soon with a haggle down reflecting fixes .
 
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rubberduck said:
If it were me I would be insisting the vendor do the repairs & use main dealers to do it.
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The unknown is the engine out for the sump .
Not only is that a lot of chopping and reglassing ? But a huge “ while we are in there “

Eg , oil pumps ( sump off )
Belts , water pump maybe - gotta be risers , how about new black pipes ,
You see on the conveyor belt of VP outdrives ( and IPS pods ) as time goes where do you stop ??

“While you are in there “

I mean sellers does it via his commissioned agent who’s instructed not find “ while you are in there “

Then 2/3 y later or sooner the risers are so badly corroded it needs another engine out job .

We have not even been down the water in oil drive moment .

Ok i,ll ask - to the OP did the surveyor check the drive oil for water ingress ?
Was he allowed to put a spanner on anything?
 
Portofino said:
The unknown is the engine out for the sump .
Not only is that a lot of chopping and reglassing ? But a huge “ while we are in there “

Eg , oil pumps ( sump off )
Belts , water pump maybe - gotta be risers , how about new black pipes ,
You see on the conveyor belt of VP outdrives ( and IPS pods ) as time goes where do you stop ??

“While you are in there “

I mean sellers does it via his commissioned agent who’s instructed not find “ while you are in there “

Then 2/3 y later or sooner the risers are so badly corroded it needs another engine out job .

We have not even been down the water in oil drive moment .

Ok i,ll ask - to the OP did the surveyor check the drive oil for water ingress ?
Was he allowed to put a spanner on anything?
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I think that’s a bit OTT, or should he be fitting new engines aswell just in case something goes wrong in the next few years.

I would be more in favour of having a mechanical survey done to identity what’s wrong and then fix whatever is on the list.
 
Boat2016 said:
I think that’s a bit OTT, or should he be fitting new engines aswell just in case something goes wrong in the next few years.

I would be more in favour of having a mechanical survey done to identity what’s wrong and then fix whatever is on the list.
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By the sounds of things the mech survey been done to a degree insofar as creating the initial list .
It’s not brand new or nearly new .
There’s a lot of deferred maintenance that could be done “ while we are in “ - engines out in a comfortable workshop in the cool light of day and sumps off .

Seller is gonna suppress that , refit it with original pipage , water and oil , even reuse jubilee clips etc .

However if the seller agrees a negotiated chip down then - -
Buyer will at least have the option of listening to his appointed engineers vast past experience of engine out and sump off jobs .Eg , seeing as the turbos are knackered a refurb is a short term gain for £x , suggest new for 2x£x and expect many more years , “ let’s do the water pump seals “ ? “ wanna do the coolers “ ? New oil and coolant as well .
All that’s on the conveyor belt , ok not identified by the recent survey but it pretty pointless ignoring an experienced engineer .

If the seller ticks off the list that’s all you are gonna get no more , expect used jubilee clips and old hoses refitted n all .
 
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When I bought my latest boat from BCU we simply agreed that all points my surveyor pointed out were for their account & all the "while we're there" was for my account,It was a used boat after all. Cost me a few bob but now have a safe reliable boat, its not rocket science.
 
Where does it end? More new parts than the vendor probably will not want to pay for as its bettering the boat.

I'm more inclined to re-fuse the boat and say I'll put another offer in once all the work is completed to my surveyors re-inspections. God knows how long all this will take to put right and probably end up running into the boating season.
 
rubberduck said:
When I bought my latest boat from BCU we simply agreed that all points my surveyor pointed out were for their account & all the "while we're there" was for my account,It was a used boat after all. Cost me a few bob but now have a safe reliable boat, its not rocket science.
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This isn’t BCU , with on-site guys who otherwise that day(s) may have been sat on there thumbs .
Did that involve engines out ?

Anyhow at least we agree there gonna be some of “ while we’re there “

Next Q if the sellers engineer does it , will he be bothered with the hassle of dealing with the buyer ? .
Fixed price , fixed time , bit of somthing in the parts and get out ASAP to the next tee,d up fee earning job .

Or milk it to death ?if he’s slack workwise . Holding the whip hand this chap demanding cash upfront because of fear the buyer will be a bad payer .
Buyer might not even be advised of any “ while were there “ stuff by the sellers engineer that’s the point .
 
Russ, there seems to be some misunderstanding regarding number of owners. Have you checked that the boats paperwork is all in order (Bills I'd Sale, Vat invoice, builder's certificate)?

Also, you say you have the agreement and haven't returned it yet. Has the Broker/Seller signed it? Would definitely be worth pasting the section that deals with rejection here so that we can establish where you stand.
 
petem said:
Russ, there seems to be some misunderstanding regarding number of owners. Have you checked that the boats paperwork is all in order (Bills I'd Sale, Vat invoice, builder's certificate)?

Also, you say you have the agreement and haven't returned it yet. Has the Broker/Seller signed it? Would definitely be worth pasting the section that deals with rejection here so that we can establish where you stand.
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I haven't seen the paperwork other than the service history. I asked to see it but the contract says copies are provided 7 days after signing agreement. Looking closer, the service invoices show 4 separate owners and addresses from 2005 up to July 2018. One being the last owners father. Yet web site advert said 1 owner. Now I feel even less confident in this broker.

No signatures on any paperwork. Just wrong dates, missing HIN & SSR numbers.
Surely a contract is void until its signed by all parties?

S34 Contract 4.jpeg
 

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jfm said:
One could write a whole legal textbook on that and I'm not going to, but in this context the answer is, sort of, yes. At least, it amounts to an agreement as to how the deposit should be dealt with going forward, which is actually what matters to you if you find yourself wanting the deposit back.
I'm not saying sign the contract, because I haven't read it. But if the contract is at least reasonably good to you in terms of how the deposit is to be handled and in specifying that the broker accepts that he holds it as stakeholder not seller's agent, then sign it, imho. Without a contract saying otherwise, the broker holds the deposit as seller's agent and generally that isn't good for you - puts you on back foot as regards return of deposit.
If you want views on the contract, paste it here.
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What if the contract hasn't been signed by the seller / broker?
 
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