Extra fuel in jerry cans for long sea crossing

[jrudge]

So advise / opinions please.

This summer I want to head from Mallorca to Menorca and then to Sardinia, up to France along the coast and back. Big circle.

The only snag is that Menorca to Sardina is 180 miles across open sea against a boat range of 220 ish ( targa 40) which is too tight for me as weather etc could mean I use more fuel. Not seeking to be a hero.

My plan is to procure say 6 20 litre empty ( clean) oil containers, fill with diesel and buy an electric transfer pump ex eBay. Stop a few hours out of Menorca when I will have used more than 120l, fill and continue. If there were a problem transferring fuel then I just turn round and head back to Menorca.

The spare diesel will hence only be out of the main fuel tanks for a few hours.

Has anyone done this / can anyone see any problem with doing this?

Thanks

Jeremy

 

[MapisM]

Has anyone done this / can anyone see any problem with doing this?

Never done that, 'cause my range is enough for a whole boating summer .
And I wouldn't fancy doing that, regardless.
But being based in S Sardinia, right along the route from the Balearics to Greece, I (relatively) often see boats with similar arrangements, so if you're asking if it can be done, the answer is yes, I reckon.
Otoh, I'd rather wait for a decent weather window, and make the first half of the passage at 8 or 9 knots.
Not sure about the T40 (someone else can surely be more accurate in this respect), but I'd guess that your range is at least double of what you are quoting, at D speed.
So, by the time you are half way, you have all the choices open: continue slowly if you're getting to like that cruising style (warning: you might get addicted, and willing to sell the Targa PDQ!), hammer the throttle if you are in a hurry or you want to beat the weather (still having a good reserve), or even go back in the worst case.

 

[pan]

Biggest issue we found many years ago, was securing the fuel cans, even with a good forecast the weather can turn quickly and you don't want fuel cans breaking loose! Transferring the fuel can be a bit hairy in a heavy sea, with boat pitching around fuel spills will really spoil the crossing (fumes etc). Reasonable plan to get the fuel in asap, better in the tanks than cans.

Would suggest Mapis plan is best, d speed early on to max out the range, especially if calm, you may want speed later in the voyage, you are better sacrificing time for fuel range. :encouragement:

 

[Jegs]

I suspect you might find it difficult transferring fuel at sea.

John G

 

[grumpyoldman]

We bought an inflatable fuel bladder/pillow to solve this type of problem and to make filling and transfer at sea easy and safe- if you Google fuel bladder you will find many suppliers. We purchased from the UK in our case we wanted 500L extra capacity - you can get them from 200 to 3000L, above or below deck models. Not that expensive, we constantly keep it filled,just in case

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Never done that, 'cause my range is enough for a whole boating summer .
And I wouldn't fancy doing that, regardless.
But being based in S Sardinia, right along the route from the Balearics to Greece, I (relatively) often see boats with similar arrangements, so if you're asking if it can be done, the answer is yes, I reckon.
Otoh, I'd rather wait for a decent weather window, and make the first half of the passage at 8 or 9 knots.
Not sure about the T40 (someone else can surely be more accurate in this respect), but I'd guess that your range is at least double of what you are quoting, at D speed.
So, by the time you are half way, you have all the choices open: continue slowly if you're getting to like that cruising style (warning: you might get addicted, and willing to sell the Targa PDQ!), hammer the throttle if you are in a hurry or you want to beat the weather (still having a good reserve), or even go back in the worst case.

J, MapisM has the right solution here - split the crossing into D and P sectors and then just wait for the weather. A few years ago, I was part of Hurricane's forum crew for a crossing from Mahon to Bizerte, Tunisia - about 320nm. This was similarly well beyond the safe P range of his P67 - so his solution was 10 hours at D speeds, then 8 hours planing. All worked perfectly, although it was necessarily a long crossing, and some of it was through the night (because we weren't able to wait for a perfect weather window, because of crew travel arrangements).

I don't know the exact numbers for the T40 because I have never done enough D cruising to measure the fuel consumption - although just yesterday I spent a very pleasant hour having an extremely slow bimble (6 kts) off Antibes, 1000rpm, very gentle, lovely. The T40 fuel capacity is 750l, and (sorry for mixing units) my very long-term average across all conditions but typically cruising high 20's is about 1.4nmpg, which gives a working range of about 200nm, allowing for a bit of contingency and a bit of unuseable.

I do know that before attempting the big crossing, Hurricane did a lot of trialling and measuring to get accurate fuel consumption numbers at different speeds. In the end his numbers and planning were absolutely spot-on.

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[AndieMac]

We bought an inflatable fuel bladder/pillow to solve this type of problem and to make filling and transfer at sea easy and safe- if you Google fuel bladder you will find many suppliers. We purchased from the UK in our case we wanted 500L extra capacity - you can get them from 200 to 3000L, above or below deck models. Not that expensive, we constantly keep it filled,just in case

The bladders seem a popular option, and opting for the higher quality brand seems to pay off. Some thoughts are to have a couple of smaller bladders instead of one large version in case of leakage, you don't loose the lot.
Setting them up to gravity feed into the main tank, if possible strapped to the main deck seems simple enough.

 

[Lozzer]

I have made this crossing a number of times in boats between 50-100', planing and displacement. It is important to get your weather window right. I've had conditions from glass to 3m waves on the beam (luckily stabilisers worked perfectly).

I would agree with displacement for first part then go to planing you will make it comfortably never mind extra fuel.

 

[hlb]

I used to do it all the time. With my in flight refuelling tank. 45 gallon oil drum. A few BSP pipe fittings and the jobs done. It was ready piped up with a pump and wander hose. I never actually used it in flight, but no reason why not. It just meant that I could keep going to places I liked, rather that buying fuel in expensive places or going out my way.

It was laid down in the cellar on a couple of cradles, so it did not rock about.

 

[MedMilo]

I've done the trip a few times with my Squadron 58 and, as Mapism and other have suggested, did most of the crossing from Cala D'or (east coast of Mallorca) to Alghero (west coast of Sardinia) at 8/9 kts and arrived having only used about 30% of the tank (c.1000 litres). We left Cala D'or at about lunchtime and arrived at about lunchtime the next day. We saw lots of turtles and a pair of whales which we would probably have missed if we'd been doing 25kts..., and we saved around €3000 in fuel costs! Personally I think this is a much more attractive option than trying to carry spare bladders of fuel, transfer diesel at sea etc. But, as Lozzer has said, you will want to wait for a good weather window.

 

[chris1955]

I did that trip back in 2008 in a Sealine S34 on passage from Denia in Spain to Marmaris in Turkey. We had 10 x 25 ltr plastic fuel cans in the anchor locker with a small electric submersible pump hooked up to a length of hose that was left rigged and tied to the stanchions that could transfer 15 ltrs a minute. My crew had to be extremely careful up on deck (and always used a snap on safety line), but I could reach the deck fillers from the cockpit, and open and put the hose into the tank and he would sit 'in' the anchor locker moving the pump between the containers. The whole system worked well, and we were even able to transfer in fairly uncomfortable conditions, without much pain.

 

[DAKA]

I used to carry metal jerry cans of extra Petrol, used a metal spout to refuel, metal spout has the strength to take the weight of the can once in the filler neck.

Also used to refuel my diesel corniche with same jerry cans/spout.

Plastic drums are too awkward to use at sea .

spouts not as strong
whole container too flimsy to hold (in my opinion)

Although I have used and prefer plastic cans to refuel dockside and in a sheltered bay with a funnel.


I fitted an extra plastic extended tank to my petrol boat , Ive still got it with all the fittings including a fuel gauge in the loft but it isnt big enough for you, its only 85 L I think.
It was something like this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Plastic-5...tEquipment_Accessories_SM&hash=item19e6240d36

I had a T tap into my main pick up that I could just switch and a second switch tapped into the on the fuel sender wire.

It would be easy to fit , the return would just send it to straight to your main tank.

I would have thought you could find a second hand tank going cheap enough.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

J, MapisM has the right solution here - split the crossing into D and P sectors and then just wait for the weather.

In theory of course thats correct but it's one thing being tucked up inside a nice big comfy flybridge boat for a long night crossing but quite another in a smaller open cockpit sports boat. Also if the wind gets up from the beam during the D part of the trip, then it could get very uncomfortable in a boat of this size and type. I'm not sure when the OP is planning to do this but assuming its during summer, then he's got at least 12-14hrs of daylight which means he could easily do the whole trip in daylight at 15-17kts which would both save fuel over his normal 25kt cruising speed and still ensure that the boat remains on plane for a comfortable ride. More than likely he'll get to Sardinia on one tank anyway at a slow P speed but I would still take say 200 litres of extra fuel in a bladder tank for safety and if any really flat conditions are encountered, take the opportunity to pump a few litres of fuel into the tanks for extra security. If the worst comes to the worst and the boat is using more fuel than planned and for any reason, refuelling can't be done, then there is always the option to slow down to D speed

 

[MapisM]

the worst comes to the worst and the boat is using more fuel than planned and for any reason, refuelling can't be done, then there is always the option to slow down to D speed

Well, of course I agree that cruising at D speed is much more comfy with bigger/heavier/fully enclosed boats.
Otoh, by the same token, I'd rather "reserve" the option of going fast to beat the weather for the end of the trip.
You can always choose the right weather for leaving the dock, it's what you find out there that's never guaranteed.
Besides, I'm not sure that fuel burn (in terms of MPG) at 15kts would be much better than at 20kts on a T40...?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Well, of course I agree that cruising at D speed is much more comfy with bigger/heavier/fully enclosed boats.
Otoh, by the same token, I'd rather "reserve" the option of going fast to beat the weather for the end of the trip.
You can always choose the right weather for leaving the dock, it's what you find out there that's never guaranteed.
Besides, I'm not sure that fuel burn (in terms of MPG) at 15kts would be much better than at 20kts on a T40...?

Yeah but my point was that the OP apparently has a 220nm range for a 180nm trip which would probably get him to Sardinia at P speed anyway. By planning a D trip with P in reserve, the OP is exposed to unforecast adverse weather for a longer period. He could spend 10 hrs doing 70nm at 7kts and unexpectedly find himself in worse sea conditions than he expected and still have 110nm to go at P speed. IMHO better to do 10hrs at 15kts and at least if the weather turned at that point he would only have 30nm to go and he then has the option whether to continue at P speed if he has fuel or drop down to D speed if he hasn't. IMHO if you have a P boat then you should get as much of the trip done at P speed as possible in the sea conditions you expect.
Praps the OP or JTB could comment on whether slow P speed is more economical than fast P speed but I've never had a boat where that hasn't been the case

 

[MapisM]

IMHO better to do 10hrs at 15kts and at least if the weather turned at that point he would only have 30nm to go and he then has the option whether to continue at P speed if he has fuel or drop down to D speed if he hasn't.

That's the key point. Personally, I'd hate the idea of being possibly restricted in my choices by fuel limits, but each to their own on that.
After all, maybe I'm spoiled by the habit of refueling only once per season...