Express Pirate, info please

[xhurleyman]

Hello all, a budding young sailor friend of mine has seen an advert on E bay for a 17ft Express Pirate which has never been sailed, complete with trailer. I invite anyone who knows to tell me the negatives first of this boat. Cheers, oh the price is £850.

 

[LittleSister]

I used to have one, and had lots of fun and travelled quite far in it (though we were always the smallest boat in the anchorage!). It's rather small and basic by modern standards, but a sound boat, dry in a seaway, by a very highly regarded and successful designer. It sails surprisingly well given its size and keel configuration, but unsurprisingly for it's size does tend to get stopped by short steep seas.

The Pirate is a shorter version of the Prelude (or vice versa), and originally available with either a fin or lifting keel.

The Express Pirate was a later version, promoted by the Daily Express (as with (Daily) Mirror dinghy etc.) with bilge keels. The bilge keels are parallel, which is cheaper to produce, but not as efficient as splayed bilge keels. I seem to remember the bilge keels were not designed by the original designer.

As was common at the time, some boats were bought part complete and home finished (interior, fittings etc.). Generally home completed boats are not as well (or at least neatly and ergonomically) finished as yard finished boats, but a few are significantly superior.

Practical Boat Owner said of the Pirate "FOR: Good sailing qualities. Choice of keels. Simple yet spacious accommodation. Economic price. AGAINST No outboard well. Reduced access forward. Express version rather basic.'

Hoskyn's Yacht Directories Good Yacht Guide said: 'Popular fast trailer sailer from 1973. Excellent well-mannered performer with large cockpit and well finished but diminutive cabin. Not flush bottomed, but simple to trail.'

You could probably get more boat for £850, but condition is worth a lot (and will save money in the long run) and more important than exact model for this kind of boat. Being trailable offers the potential for significant savings in storage fees, and occasional visits to different cruising grounds, but it would not really be practicable to keep at home and launch every time you wanted to sail.

Note that if it really has has never been sailed, it may be that it does not have all the kit and fittings needed to sail and practically use, and it may be an unfinished home completion with work outstanding. I would strongly advise that someone with practical sailing and boat maintenance experience views the boat before your friend parts with his money.

 

[Phil the Cowman]

I've owned my Pirate for about 15 years ( though haven't sailed her for a couple of years due to family commitments and also having another boat). Super little boat! Would fully endorse Little Sister's post, and would like to add a couple of other points. The cost of an outboard plus lifting bracket is likely to add significant cost ( I use a 3.5 hp for mine).If the boat doesn't have a backstay, it's a really good idea to add one to avoid rig inversion downwind. Mine is the fin keeled version which sails beautifully; basically a dinghy with a lid. She's surprisingly dry and capable - obviously within sensible limits - and just a lot of uncomplicated fun. It ,of course, has to be remembered that this is a very small boat and if you push too hard there are going to be scary moments!
Here's a link to my youtube channel with some Pirate videos FWIW ( there are also vids taken on my 24 footer so there may be some confusion- basically the 24 foot Cal t4 has a flat cabin top, so those clearly are not Pirate ones)http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0T8qMMK1QmqiBJDJ5Zj8MQ

 

[C08]

There are Pirates and Pirates!. Apart from the Ridgeway built and the Express variant some had twin keels, some a short fin and some had a drop keel as well as twin keels. The one I had was twin & drop keels. It had about 4ft draught with the heavy iron keel down and sailed so well that some of the racers on Bala got quite hostile when we sailed past them. As other said they sail very, very well and are just a good miniture cruising sail boat.

 

[Seajet]

I've heard of plenty of boats with stub bilge ( ie not twin ) keels for drying out and a centreplate in the middle, but never a lift AND twin keels ?

I remember the Ridgeway boats range and have the brochure for the Prelude, a friend had the larger Prospect.

With the smaller ones using an outboard on a transom bracket I'd think it wise to use a light engine - preferably a well kept 2-stroke like a Malta 3.5hp if you can get one, on a lifting bracket to avoid drag when sailing - as they were not designed for the much greater weight of 4-strokes and with one of those may find the transom dragging as well as maybe cockpit drains backflowing ?

Ridgeway boats were not exactly built like tanks, but they gave a lot of fun to a lot of people.

 

[xhurleyman]

Thank you all, that is very good information regarding the Express Pirate. Cheers, Kevin

 

[steve yates]

what phil doesn't mention is that he has sailed his little pirate right round the uk, and it's written up in an issue of pbo somewhere. Well worth finding.

 

[LittleSister]

what phil doesn't mention is that he has sailed his little pirate right round the uk,

Impressive! :encouragement: