Exciting times off Cowes today

flaming said:
I think engineering a boat to be immune to all collisions will get you a very heavy and uninspiring boat. So where do you draw the line?
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Half way between the two.
IMO modern technology allows manufacturers to push the design to just before the 'not strong enough' limit. People accept this trade off for a fast racing boat but for the production cruising boat this limit is pushed as a cost saving policy, hence the spate of keels falling off.

PS I will admit to clouting an unlit buoy at night and came away with just the scars. I think I got away with it because the layup was done in the early era of GRP boats.
 
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While this incident seems remarkable in broad daylight with three crew, I admit I once clonked into a buoy - very gently, fortunately - despite my Dad taking the pee out of me always asking crew ' keep a lookout under the jib !' Forever after that I never set the genoa in Chichester Harbour, and my favourite headsail is a high clewed blade which gives great ' slot ' efficiency and good visibility.

They didn't call the J Class sails ' Solent Jibs ' for nothing, but in those days it was mainly to stop the short steep Solent Chop breaking into the headsail; those who sneer at ' Solent Sailors ' need to try their luck between the forts or at Chichester entrance above F5-6 :rolleyes:
 
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LadyInBed said:
Half way between the two.
IMO modern technology allows manufacturers to push the design to just before the 'not strong enough' limit. People accept this trade off for a fast racing boat but for the production cruising boat this limit is pushed as a cost saving policy, hence the spate of keels falling off.

PS I will admit to clouting an unlit buoy at night and came away with just the scars. I think I got away with it because the layup was done in the early era of GRP boats.
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I think the type of hit is important too. Don't forget that this is one of the sunsail fleet that races with inexperienced crew onboard for way more days a year than your average private race boat.
That fleet will, because of the above, have hit between them an awful lot of buoys in the solent. And yet, this is the 1st one to sink.
I hit a buoy when racing this year. The first for many years, no damage beyond an unsightly mark that I had to buff out, and that boat is a lot lighter than the F40s. But then I didn't clatter into it, it was by way of a glancing blow...

Many, many years ago, I was on board a real AWB, a legend, when the helm drove it absolutely squarely into a channel marker. Couple of gelcoat chips in the bow, certainly no hole...

Red_Buoy_657.jpg


That is the buoy in question... I don't think all that many boats would come away unscathed if they happened to hit one of those hoops under their forefoot. Especially if they just happened to be coming off a bit of solent chop in a nice wind over tide situation in 20+kts of wind.... Going over 7 knots with 3 knots of tide under you...
Would your boat survive that without a hole?
 
I quite often sail with very inexperienced guests and I notice that, when helming, they have little awareness of the boat's track over the ground and assume that the boat will go where it is pointing. I recently had one that had us very close to ramming a Solent fort in a strong ebb tide. I left it as long as I dared to find out when the helm would realise the danger. It wasn't before I felt I had to intervene. This is all understandable, as we're not accustomed to modes of transport that crab along.
It's all too easy to hit a buoy.
 
I'm not too convinced ' most times we hit a buoy there's not much damage ' is the right way to go :)

When I worked aboard a hotel barge ( which steered like a tesco trolley on ice, 33 turns lock to lock on the wheel ) in Burgundy I learned one of the guests had been helmsman on a cruiser at Iwo Jima - I thought ' respect ! ' and gave the helm over - we were on quite a fast flowing river upstream of a bridge with big pillars, he got us sideways on - " let me just straighten her up for you Sir ! " - lots of frantic twiddling with the wheel :)
 
I'm wondering if the boat rode up the buoy at speed and punctured the hull below the waterline. If the buoy was glanced whilst sailing at heel then the hole would be well above the waterline.
 
LadyInBed said:
Half way between the two.
IMO modern technology allows manufacturers to push the design to just before the 'not strong enough' limit. People accept this trade off for a fast racing boat but for the production cruising boat this limit is pushed as a cost saving policy, hence the spate of keels falling off.
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Spate!!!
What? you mean like £8m oysters
However, I do know of some Centaurs with very wobbly bilge keels.( not that they have actually dropped off) Will that count?
 
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flaming said:
Red_Buoy_657.jpg


That is the buoy in question... I don't think all that many boats would come away unscathed if they happened to hit one of those hoops under their forefoot. Especially if they just happened to be coming off a bit of solent chop in a nice wind over tide situation in 20+kts of wind.... Going over 7 knots with 3 knots of tide under you...
Would your boat survive that without a hole?
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I know I shouldn’t do this, but... cue Suffolk accent..Dew yew call that little owd thing a buoy bor? That ain’t no bouy; this is a buoy... ,

 
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LadyInBed said:
Half way between the two.
IMO modern technology allows manufacturers to push the design to just before the 'not strong enough' limit. People accept this trade off for a fast racing boat but for the production cruising boat this limit is pushed as a cost saving policy, hence the spate of keels falling off.

PS I will admit to clouting an unlit buoy at night and came away with just the scars. I think I got away with it because the layup was done in the early era of GRP boats.
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Plenty of MAB’s have sunk after hitting something. Boats sinking isn’t really a new thing.
 
Kukri said:
I know I shouldn’t do this, but... cue Suffolk accent..Dew yew call that little owd thing a buoy bor? That ain’t no bouy; this is a buoy... ,

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I knew there was a good reason I no longer sail in suffolk, but drive the 3 hours to the Solent to sail there instead...
 
Kukri said:
I know I shouldn’t do this, but... cue Suffolk accent..Dew yew call that little owd thing a buoy bor? That ain’t no bouy; this is a buoy... ,

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Did a quick bumpy spin out to landguard a few weeks back... damn near ended up on top of it as I was gibing around the outside...

Surprising how fast the buggers end up under your nose...
 
Surprising how fast the buggers end up under your nose...

And that, I suspect, is the root cause of this accident. I've never hit one, touch wood, but I've come close a few times - the buggers do sneak up on you, especially when you get a gust and the boat rounds up in spite of your best efforts. Add a helm who's unfamiliar with both boat and local conditions and it's a recipe for trouble.

Also wondering if "hole near the bow" is an assumption because she went down by the bow. It isn't hard to imagine a solid hit on the keel causing a major leak, especially after a few unreported groundings, then the buoy's chain carrying on to take the rudder out. It must have been quite an impact to remove the rudder completely, though.

The important thing is that we're the ones holding post mortems on the incident, not the Coroner.
 
flaming said:
Red_Buoy_657.jpg


That is the buoy in question... I don't think all that many boats would come away unscathed if they happened to hit one of those hoops under their forefoot. Especially if they just happened to be coming off a bit of solent chop in a nice wind over tide situation in 20+kts of wind.... Going over 7 knots with 3 knots of tide under you...
Would your boat survive that without a hole?
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I would hope and expect that it would. A friend of mine sailing here in the Bristol channel ( conditions a bit more serious than the Solent :encouragement: ) made a habit of hitting the channel markers we sail around. Must have done it half a dozen times both in his own boat and in others, and the only time he did any serious damage was when reverse failed, he hit the lock gates and the mast came down. But they were older British boats built rather more strong than the modern BenJenBAv AWB.
 
I nearly hit the (larger, steel) Wells next the Sea WCM a couple of weeks ago. My (large bearded man) crew screamed out loud but it glided past a foot away, plunging in the swells.
It was dark, raining and gusty, the overfalls were flinging us about as we waited (what seemed a very long time..) for the HM's workboat come out to tow us in. We were following instructions maintaining station under sail, by the WCM, my engine U/S due to diesel bug. I had tried to loiter there once already, and bunked out to sea again to avoid being wrecked, but this time the workboat swore he was coming, now.
The tide was fairly hurling us to the East, 1 hr before HW.
My one crew was inexperienced and I had spent all day bleeding the fuel system and changing filters to no avail, and I had to leave him to go below and get a long, thick tow line ready for the workboat, which took a few minutes..
We did only 'nearly' hit the buoy though, and got in to harbour safely.

I haven't read all the posts and I hope nobody is blaming the skipper, as circumstances conspire..
 
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The Portsmouth Times report has it that the crew were three Swiss men. IIRC, the recent MAIB report on the charter boat keel loss said that their crew were Swiss as well. Maybe anyone chartering their boat out to a Swiss bunch should think again?:devilish::devilish::devilish:
 
Resolution said:
The Portsmouth Times report has it that the crew were three Swiss men. IIRC, the recent MAIB report on the charter boat keel loss said that their crew were Swiss as well. Maybe anyone chartering their boat out to a Swiss bunch should think again?:devilish::devilish::devilish:
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Swiss Navy team building cruise
 
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