Exam question

Didn't really fancy going into Poole against the ebb and with an F8 adding to the fun.

But having thought about the question more, a better response might be.

Well Mr Examiner, in real-life this situation won't just have sprung up on me. I'll know my ETA at the Needles will be critical, and I'll know to within a few minutes when it might be, which with a F6 up the chuff and the last knockings of the east going under me won't be very far away. I'll also know whether its springs or neaps, which you haven't told me, and which will make a difference to the sea conditions. I would also expect the strong SW'ly to hold up the west going for a few minutes. My ETA will get me to the Needles channel before the west going has got any steam in it. If I alter for the North Channel I'll lose an hour and get more tide and poss more wind and if anything breaks I'll be stuffed on a lee shore. Heading for the main channel, I'll probably get there before the F8 arrives and with little or no contrary tide, so for now I'll just blast through, and once I'm in the Solent, I've got a ton of options. (all that providing I had a strong and seaworthy boat under me, and a decent crew).
 
It depends a lot on the knowledge of the skipper.

I've never tried the N Channel in a gale but to me it seems like a lee shore and without more experience I would not like to try it. Similarly I have never entered Poole in F8

I do know the East approaches much better and I have on a number of occasions approached the Forts in F8+. If you are 10M SW of the needles with an SW6 behind you you are only about 2 hrs from the shelter of the Island (i.e passed Dunnose) and once you get there it is pretty well plain sailing...

I think in adverse conditions there is a lot to be said for seeking familiar territory as it gives the least risk of skipper errors (which at the end of the day are the catalyst that cause most serious accidents).
 
I have used the North Channel in a SW F8, we crossed overnight from St Vaast with the wind buiding and by the time we were at the Needles Fairway if was a good F8. It was daylight so we altered for the North Channel getting some huge surfs on the way there, however the North Channel itself is protected by the Shingles so the seas there are OK. I know it seems like a lee shore but so's the Needles and I think Id stand a better chance of jumping ashore on Hurst Spit than I would on the Shingles or the Needles ;-)

I've entered Poole in an Easterly F8, not pleasant but again Hook sands protect the entrance, in a SW it would be sheltered by Purbeck.
 
so, we're agreed that the correct answer is a sort of hemming and hawing list of options to either go to poole, or up the needles, the north channel or possibly round the east side of the island, it all depends. But what about the OTHER possibilities hm? For example, nobody seems to have considered pressing the "Hyperspace" button.
 
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For example, nobody seems to have considered pressing the "Hyperspace" button.

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Its only really big cats that have one of these - in these circumstances you would be doing abt 18 knots and will be past the needles long before the tide turns - so no problems!
 
"You are 10 miles SW of the Needles, heading the Hamble. The wind is F6 and rising with a forecast of SW8 imminent."
___________________________________________________
From MacMillan/Reeds

"Needles Channel - Even in a SW Force 4 against the ebb will raise breaking seas near the Bridge & SW Shingles buoys"

Reminiscent of 1997, when 3 people were lost in similar circumstances, also trying to get back to the Hamble. Would you really be gungho enough to attempt the Needles Channel?
The coroner's verdict on that incident was "too much testosterone" & seems like lots of it still about!

The seas there in a F6+ ebb, are horrendous.


"The westbound stream is due to start in the next hour."
From where? If your talking about the channel, it goes west at about HW Portsmouth. At Hurst, it will already have been ebbing for an hour before that.

You have 10 miles to go, which probably means at least 2+ hours before you get to Hurst Castle, on the direct route.

Going eastward around bottom of the island? You will be punching tide & have wind over tide conditions off St Catherines - not a nice combination. How long will it take you to get to Foreland, with foul tide until 5hrs after HW Portsmouth & foul tide after that around the corner toward Portsmouth.

Go for North Channel? As previously mentioned, a lee shore with tide setting toward Christchurch Harbour. On a flood tide, at least you would be pushed into the Solent, with some possibility of shelter.

Studland/Poole? By far the most sensible option.
Anchor in Studland, or pick up Banks Arms buoy. Good Shelter, unless wind backs.

Lets pretend your in a Bavaria & then choose your options.
 
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You have 10 miles to go, which probably means at least 2+ hours before you get to Hurst Castle, on the direct route.

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I don't know what speed you sail at - but a F6 behind tends to be 6+ knots through the water for me ... so I'd be working on less than 2hrs (with an eye on that margin of Sods Law that generally applies)

IMO the actual answer for YM question isn't black and white - the Examiner only wants to see that you are aware of all the permutations available and the benefits (or not) of each. So an answer of "keep going with an eye on the weather" could be just as valid as a "run to Poole/Studland" answer - but both would not be a correct answer it itself if you have not shown awareness of the other options....
 
"I don't know what speed you sail at - but a F6 behind tends to be 6+ knots through the water for me ... so I'd be working on less than 2hrs (with an eye on that margin of Sods Law that generally applies)"

The 2hrs+ is surely based upon speed over ground, with a foul tide, rather than speed thru water.
 
>The 2hrs+ is surely based upon speed over ground, with a foul tide, rather than speed thru water. <

Read the original post. West going hasn't started yet so no foul tide. There maybe even a smidge of east going left. Also, no idea whether springs, neaps or something in between which makes a difference. That's why the skipper should in any case have a close idea of his ETA in the Needles Channel based on current boat speed and predicted tides.
 
Exactly ... so if you're making say 8 knots over the ground you're going to be at the needles within 1 1/2 hrs and only have to punch a slight tide - not a full ebb ...
 
"West going hasn't started yet so no foul tide."
? - "West going in the next hour"
So we may not have 1 hour to play with & your 10 miles off.

"so if you're making say 8 knots over the ground you're going to be at the needles within 1 1/2 hrs and only have to punch a slight tide"

West going off Needles, starts HW Portsmouth - 30mins.
At Hurst it starts 30 mins earlier than that.

The tide could have been west going for an hour when you get to the Needles. Another 1/2 hour to Hurst at your SOG, where on the same tide timing, it would have been west going for a full 2 hours, so you are into the 3rd hour of the ebb. Still sure about your SOG?

"and thus not the horrendous wind over tide seas that'll be there a coupla hours later."

At the Court of Enquiry, following the 1997 disaster, the Yarmouth Lifeboat Cox'n gave 'expert evidence'. He stated that the worse conditions were experienced when wind with tide, not wind over tide, at the Bridge - he would not even take the Lifeboat through there.

F6 rising, with F8 imminent forecast.
Are you still sure you'd 'chance' it?
Sea conditions at the Needles, will be bad.
Broach there & 1997 scenario revisited.

I still prefer Studland.

Alongside Poole Quay, a lee berth on a SW F6 rising & F8 imminent? No way! If you want to go into Poole Harbour, in these conditions, best find a snug berth in the shelter of Brownsea - even the marina's will be uncomfortable.

Plus point - Should also still be able to get to Banks Arms.
 
Still say there's not enough info. All we know is that the tide is going to go west in an hour. No refs to HW Pompey. If the worse seas are at the Bridge, then we're gonna be there very close to slack. Good.

Not saying you're wrong - my first reaction was Studland but the more you think about it the more you realise a) insufficient info, b) it really is a "be there" thing c) the type of vessel and crew are major factors (different answers for 45 foot Swan and a 25 foot coastal cruiser).
 
The worst conditions at the Bridge in a W'ly blow will be (surprisingly) the first hour or 2 of the flood. Never quite figured out why this is...
 
"All we know is that the tide is going to go west in an hour. No refs to HW Pompey."

Cos that when it 'starts going west' according to my tidal atlas & I would certainly be referring to it in order to make a judgement call!

Could use Dover as an alternative reference, but the result is the same.
 
TK specal precautions

what on earth are you rabiting on about? Surely you would quickly drink the top inch off your latest round of drinks in the White Cliffs Lounge, check tickets and get ready to disembark, no?
 
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