Ever had a diesel engine just stop for no reason?

[Nick Burnham]

Another great weekend aboard 'Smuggler's Blues 2', but with one odd issue on Saturday, which I'm curious to know whether anyone else has experienced because I never have before on any boat, and can find no reason for it.

I was manoeuvring into a visitor berth on the River Dart after a run round from Torquay and a motor up river when the engine just cut out completely and the engine alarm sounded. Fortunately we were just about in by then so able to get the boat tied up. My immediate thought was something must have got around the prop, stopping the engine, but it was clear. So I restarted it, tried it in and out of gear ahead and astern a couple of times, all perfect. And it has been ever since (we had another day out the next day, so it's done a few hours since).

It's a D4-260 and apart from that one incident it's been running perfectly, before and since.

So I'm now left unsure whether it's just 'one of those things' or whether it's an issue waiting to happen again.

Has anyone else ever experienced this?

 

[Andyroonot]

If it stopped whilst manoeuvring into the berth then the chances are it's the gear shift cable starting to get tight - this is pretty common on these. Obviously difficult to say without knowing the fault code, but it's pretty much the only thing that will stop it in that scenario.

How old is the engine/boat, as 4-5 years is about normal for the gear cables to start to need changing.

 

[Nick Burnham]

The boat is 12 years old. It has the usual electronic throttle/shift control.

Ironically this is the first boat I've owned with the electronic set up (although I've driven many with it) and I swear I was actually thinking only moments earlier that although I was initially a little wary of it, it's been absolutely 100% reliable and easy to use in practice. Then it stalled... That'll teach me!

 

[PCUK]

Is it common rail?

 

[petem]

Nick, worth remembering that your fire extinguishing system might sound an alarm and stop the engine in case of an alarm or a loose connection from the control unit to the engine room (or indeed bow thruster) fire extinguisher.

 

[jcwads]

Any way of getting a fault code? That would be my first check. If its a D4 260, I used to have one on my old boat, and the EVC settings showed on an LCD on the speedo. The EVC would show the fault in the LCD screen if an engine alarm sounded.

 

[AdeOlly]

This happened to me in the early days with our current boat, just coming into Yarmouth past the end of the pier with a strong cross current when one engine (KAD300) just stopped with an alarm. This after 19nm from Gosport with no issues or anything to suggest there was a problem. Engine instantly re-started. The error code puilled by engineer related to the fuel pump, but I can't remember what exactly. The boat had had very little use by the previous owner, and there were suspicions of poor fuel / gunge in the fuel pump being the cause. I dumped a bottle of fuel system cleaner into the tank aas well as the usual diesel bug additive. It's never happened again thankfully, as very disconcerting and dents one trust in the big green lumps.

 

[IDAMAY]

My CAT engines will stall if I shift too fast from forward to reverse. It was a big surprise to me the first time it happened. I was doing an emergency stop approaching the Alderney Race. Not nice. Just a thought.

 

[mainshiptom]

My CAT engines will stall if I shift too fast from forward to reverse. It was a big surprise to me the first time it happened. I was doing an emergency stop approaching the Alderney Race. Not nice. Just a thought.

I only have one..Cat 3116 300 hp

when i was sea trailing the boat first time I was handed over the controls and pushed quickly forward
The engine stalled since I have done about 80 hours and it never happened again

 

[Nick Burnham]

Is it common rail?

Yes it is (I think!)

 

[Nick Burnham]

Any way of getting a fault code? That would be my first check. If its a D4 260, I used to have one on my old boat, and the EVC settings showed on an LCD on the speedo. The EVC would show the fault in the LCD screen if an engine alarm sounded.

Mine only has hours on the tacho, I think they switched to a more comprehensive display the following year. There were no warning lights flashing once restarted.

 

[Nick Burnham]

My CAT engines will stall if I shift too fast from forward to reverse. It was a big surprise to me the first time it happened. I was doing an emergency stop approaching the Alderney Race. Not nice. Just a thought.

I was going from forward to reverse I think, albeit fairly gently and all at tickover, all was well under control (at that point..!)

 

[Nick Burnham]

This happened to me in the early days with our current boat, just coming into Yarmouth past the end of the pier with a strong cross current when one engine (KAD300) just stopped with an alarm. This after 19nm from Gosport with no issues or anything to suggest there was a problem. Engine instantly re-started. The error code puilled by engineer related to the fuel pump, but I can't remember what exactly. The boat had had very little use by the previous owner, and there were suspicions of poor fuel / gunge in the fuel pump being the cause. I dumped a bottle of fuel system cleaner into the tank aas well as the usual diesel bug additive. It's never happened again thankfully, as very disconcerting and dents one trust in the big green lumps.

Interesting, was this at tick-over speed?

Mine has had very regular use (think we're up to 50 running hours since late March launch) and I add Marine16 with every fill.

Maybe it was just 'one of those things', but you're right, it adds a niggle of doubt...

 

[julians]

Its either the shift cable getting sticky or gear shift actuator starting to fail. My d4 has done it as well. Its a very common problem with the d4 on a stern drive, just do a google and youll find loads of tales similar to yours

 

[jim.howes]

Hi Nick, I had an experience such as yours many moons ago when coming alongside at Woolston, both main engines died(scary) but I must say it was MCMV HMS BRECON returning from sea trials. It transpired it was radio transmissions that caused the engines to shut down. Impossible to be stiff gearshift cable unless of course the cable detached itself and wrapped itself around the prop shaft stalling the engine. The alarm will sound when the engine stops anyway simply because it has lost oil pressure. I would suggest that because you were able to restart the engine instantly that there was an electronic hiccup and only the gremlins will ever know why, but it might be worth trying to extract from the electronics an error code. If it does it again then worry otherwise forget it ever happened. Enjoy the wonderful summer. Jim.

 

[julians]

Hi Nick, I had an experience such as yours many moons ago when coming alongside at Woolston, both main engines died(scary) but I must say it was MCMV HMS BRECON returning from sea trials. It transpired it was radio transmissions that caused the engines to shut down. Impossible to be stiff gearshift cable unless of course the cable detached itself and wrapped itself around the prop shaft stalling the engine. The alarm will sound when the engine stops anyway simply because it has lost oil pressure. I would suggest that because you were able to restart the engine instantly that there was an electronic hiccup and only the gremlins will ever know why, but it might be worth trying to extract from the electronics an error code. If it does it again then worry otherwise forget it ever happened. Enjoy the wonderful summer. Jim.

Its a known issue with the d4, either a sticky shift cable or worn out shift actuator.

The gear shift on the d4 is electronic , a motor moves a cable which changes the gear in the drive, if the motor draws too much current while changing gear,the ecu shuts down the engine because it fears that it will not be able to shift back into neutral, ie it doesnt want you stuck in gear with the engine running ( debatable whether this is the best course of action by the ecu)

The shift motor draws too much current because either the cable is sticky or the shift motor itself is worn out ( from driving a sticky cable for too long).

 

[AdeOlly]

Interesting, was this at tick-over speed?

Mine has had very regular use (think we're up to 50 running hours since late March launch) and I add Marine16 with every fill.

Maybe it was just 'one of those things', but you're right, it adds a niggle of doubt...

We'd just come off the plane and dropped all the way down to tick-over as it was busy, but I don't think I'd shifted out of gear; can't be sure. Thinking back, I'm certain the error code related to a parameter on the fuel pump going out of range. Engineer's theory was that as the rack in the pump was wound back in on deceleration there was some crud that had been displaced caused "stickiness" and that triggered the error and shutdown. All theory as I elected not to have the pump stripped at a cost of £1k+, and it's not happenend again in nearly 300 hours.

 

[Nick Burnham]

All great advice, thank you all. It does sound like it might be worth getting the shift cables checked if it happens again (as mentioned, it's been faultless since) and I will get VP to check for a fault code next time they are on board.

I also missed a reply from someone suggesting auto fire extinguishers. Interestingly, given the boat was over 10 years old when I bought it, it had no engine space fire extinguisher (or any sign that there had been one). I fitted one immediately of course, but it's a 'stand alone' unit, it's not wired in to the engine at all so wouldn't have shut it down.

Fingers crossed it's just a one off anomaly that doesn't repeat itself.

And in the meantime it's given me an idea for a Born Again Boater MBY column! Every cloud...

 

[julians]

All great advice, thank you all. It does sound like it might be worth getting the shift cables checked if it happens again (as mentioned, it's been faultless since) and I will get VP to check for a fault code next time they are on board.

I also missed a reply from someone suggesting auto fire extinguishers. Interestingly, given the boat was over 10 years old when I bought it, it had no engine space fire extinguisher (or any sign that there had been one). I fitted one immediately of course, but it's a 'stand alone' unit, it's not wired in to the engine at all so wouldn't have shut it down.

Fingers crossed it's just a one off anomaly that doesn't repeat itself.

And in the meantime it's given me an idea for a Born Again Boater MBY column! Every cloud...

If it is shift cable/actuator related, the fault will get more frequent until eventually the actuator itself burns out and fails to work completely. A new actuator Is quite expensive, it would be wise to get the cable checked and replaced before you kill the actuator.

I don't think a fault code is stored beyond the next restart of the engine, so unless you can get a read out of the fault when it happens, I don't think you'll see any errors logged.

The main tell tale sign of it being cable/actuator related is if it stalls going into or out of gear. If it Stalls when just running, ie not when shifting gear, then it's not shift cable/actuator related.

Ps - welcome to the world of unreliable VP d4 engines, next on your list will be a high speed overheat caused by blocked heat exchangers, followed by worn bearings on the belt pulleys, followed by failed hydraulic steering rams on the DPH drive.

 

[Nick Burnham]

Plenty to look forward to then!