Essential spot for Med boaters' bucket list - pt.2

P for me its is plastic versus timber, wood more then the round chines. Not surprised since flexible properties in wood is 12 to 1 versus 3 to 1 in GRP.

On some boats I cruised like a Sanlorenzo or Cayman who are built of fiberglass the noise inside improves cause bulkheads and flooring in cabins is made of wood.
Possibly Bart can confirm this, since his Canados should also be built in this way.

Noise gets also reduced versus a typical construction of most production builders.

Still I admit I am surprised that you hear the slap in the midships cabin.

M
I think it is more the bottom slap then the side one, unless you where tied with a stern rope and the waves where slamming at the side of the hull.
Considering the bed on a 630 is a foot or two above waterline I am surprised you hear it.
That is unless you have the anchor jumping off the roller like I have on my boat which I fix with rope on both cleats.

I had the occasion on cruising on some old Italian planning wooden boats, Lavagna Admiral and Tecnomarine and comfort at speed and in waves is so much better, it is unbelievable.
Slamming is basically non existent.

At this stage what I am really curious in trying is a cold molded construction to see if it gets the benefits of both World, kinda like a Spencer or Jarrett sport-fishing machine.
 
Deleted User said:
Actually I have to disagree with that. Yes stabs would have been nice to have rather than useful. You have to remember that owners of planing boats are accustomed to that kind of motion and by definition anyway when you're running at 20-25kts its for a relatively short period so any discomfort or inconvenience is temporary.
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Point taken.
I fully agree that the difference between useful and nice to have is pretty much down to individual perception, and in this respect I'm spoilt by being used to pretty much zero rolling.

Just for the records, when I said that I was reviewing what I previously thought, I had in mind a debate with jfm some time ago, where I said that if sea conditions allow fast cruising speeds, fin stabs are more a drag increase than a significant comfort improvement.
Otoh, during the last 30 mins or so before reaching Villasimius at about 25 kts, while going up and down the f/b stairs, I thought that a complete lack of rolling (which surely any stabs could have granted) would have improved not only the comfort, but also the onboard safety.
So, in hindsight I would agree with jfm that stabs can be useful (or at least nice to have! :)) also at speed, in some sea conditions.

Ref your last question, I tend to agree with PYB (as I already said in my point 5 above, to start with) that it must be mostly a matter of wood vs. grp.
Btw, I think he has a point when he says that even in the interiors alone, wood can make a difference.
As I recall, in Blue Angel (whose hull is GRP, and not much bigger than yours, but has plenty of wood everywhere in the interiors) the slapping noise is less noticeable.

All agreed on the rest. :encouragement:
 
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On some boats I cruised like a Sanlorenzo or Cayman who are built of fiberglass the noise inside improves cause bulkheads and flooring in cabins is made of wood.
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Excellent information PYB in my quest to persuade my SWMBO that our next boat should be a SL72;) What do you know about the SL72? Have you been on one at sea?

Still I admit I am surprised that you hear the slap in the midships cabin.
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Yup we were surprised and disappointed too. Maybe its not quite as bad the forward cabin but its definitely there

That is unless you have the anchor jumping off the roller like I have on my boat which I fix with rope on both cleats.
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Yup we have that also and we also use a snubber tied back to both bow cleats and that gets rid of the problem
 
would have improved not only the comfort, but also the onboard safety.
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Yup fair point. Going to the toilet on my boat in such seas at 25kts would have been very messy:eek:

Btw, I think he has a point when he says that even in the interiors alone, wood can make a difference.
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Thats is indeed an interesting point. You have been on both BA and my boat. Apart from reducing the wash noise, does the timber interior reduce machinery and exhaust noise throughout the boat as well?
 
Deleted User said:
Excellent information PYB in my quest to persuade my SWMBO that our next boat should be a SL72;) What do you know about the SL72? Have you been on one at sea?


Yup we were surprised and disappointed too. Maybe its not quite as bad the forward cabin but its definitely there


Yup we have that also and we also use a snubber tied back to both bow cleats and that gets rid of the problem
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Mike,

maybe irrelevant, but check it out. On my boat last week I had a couple of friends (for the first time) The guy and his son slept on the two beds on the side cabin, while his wife on the other smaller side cabin,

He's a relatively light sleeper and next morning he inquired about the slapping noise he was hearing, on a flat as a flat thing sea.
Was slightly confused and was trying to figure out what he was on about.
Turns out that the hard chine was meeting the water just under his bed. The ever so slight plafing of the water ripples did actually make a noise that he was picking, not as annoying but as worrying as he didn't know what it was...

So maybe there's a hardchine just where your mid cabin is and you get a stereo sound effect?

cheers

V.
 
Deleted User said:
You have been on both BA and my boat. Apart from reducing the wash noise, does the timber interior reduce machinery and exhaust noise throughout the boat as well?
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Very difficult to tell, M.
For the wash at anchor, BA is still far from being as quiet as my old tub, but the noise is definitely less noticeable than in your boat, and I would think almost unnoticeable in the master cabin (Bart can surely tell you more about that).
But under way, the comparison is very difficult, because the exhaust system of BA is much less quiet than yours.
Therefore, even if you've got pretty much the same MAN blocks, I would say that under way BA is more noisy overall, strictly due to the exhaust.
But it's impossible to tell if she would be even worse, without her wooden superstructure/bulkheads/furniture. Probably yes, at least to some extent, but now I'm just guessing.
Otoh, BA is very quiet on the f/b, in spite of the noisy exhausts.
I suppose that has to see with having no access (hence open hatch) from the cockpit, together with the all-wooden superstructure.
Then again, up on the f/b also your boat is pretty quiet... :)
 
Deleted User said:
Excellent information PYB in my quest to persuade my SWMBO that our next boat should be a SL72;) What do you know about the SL72? Have you been on one at sea?
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Hi I have been an on old San Lorenzo 72 from 2001 with 2 x 1200hp, and a 2003 with 2 x 1300hp. The Janetti era boats.
The 1200hp was a bit under powered 28/29 knots max 22/3 cruise, but the 1300hp engines one where very good.
I think what have been said here reflects there overbuilt quality compared with mainstream production builders.
Everything feels like a rock on a Sanlorenzo and the hull of the 72 is a good one indeed.

Personally I am not sure I'd go for a Sanlorenzo in that size and type, possibly I would prefer the Alalunga 78 as I think it has a better hull, and a nicer line.
Another boat to consider in the same league of the Sanlorenzo 72 would be the Maiora 23, which I think has an interior slightly better finished to a Sanlorenzo.
 
PowerYachtBlog said:
Personally I am not sure I'd go for a Sanlorenzo in that size and type, possibly I would prefer the Alalunga 78 as I think it has a better hull, and a nicer line.
Another boat to consider in the same league of the Sanlorenzo 72 would be the Maiora 23, which I think has an interior slightly better finished to a Sanlorenzo.
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The only Maiora I've seen inside was an early 90s 22, and I don't think I would put her above any SL in terms of interior quality - but I can't generalize.
Nice call on the Spertini, though.
If Deleted User would wish to experience a proper sound of silence while sleeping, he might include the breathtakingly beautiful Diano 22 or 24 in that list.
I'm just not sure to be in a position to suggest that anymore, having declared that I'm looking at plastic fantastic.... :rolleyes: :D
 
Re wash at anker,

I am sure this is coming from the hard shines on any planing boat,
I have this on my small 28ft Karnic, aswell as on BA
We checked, and the slaping noise clearly comes from very small waves, or the boat going a bit up and down
Water gets “trapped “ in that gap where the chine gets level with the water surface.
Even a small breeze in a marina or a very small swell can generate this type of noise

A few years back I have seen a small sports cruiser with sort of a plastic blanket rigged around that area under the hull, (at anker)
I forgot the name that was on this blanket it looked terribly ugly !
So the problem is generally known.

I can not compare with complete plastic boats,
I can only confirm, that despite the wooden interior, and a lot of stuff in the bilges absorbing the noise,
This slapping is still clearly audible on BA, so that guest in the vip cabin usually complain about it, (they are right above the chines)
In our master cabin the noise is also audible, but we are used to it.

General noise on BA, (wooden interior and super structure)
As Mapism say’s hard to compare as I have open exhausts, that are very noisy.
And older noisy engines.
A wooden interior might have a small contribution to noise reduction, but II like the wooden interior for other reasons,
I don’t like the wooden superstructure.(outside)


Re. Stabilisers,
For me (and swmbo) they are not only usefuill, or nice to have, but for the kind of boating we do they are indispensable,
Both underway and at anker.

We have just finished our Tivat – Venice –Tivat trip, (1100Nm)
Without stabs we would not have been able to do the passages we wanted to do
We would even have missed a few appointments with guests arriving at certain dates in certain ports (airports)
As we did a few rough passges that I wouldn’t want to do without stabs.
also at planing speed (20kn) the difference for us is important ! especially with a long beamy swell.

But for a different kind of usage this might be different,
Fe in SOF If you only bash out the marina when the sea is flat, to a nearby (crowded) bay,
Stablisation is a lot more needed at anker than underway.
Pamplonne fe, with a permanent but irregular swell from the passing boats (I don’t understand what is the fun being ankered there)
Villefranche is one of the nicest anchorages in SOF, but the swell there can be really anoying, Mapism can testify.

Re. Next boat,
+1 for SL72
Although good pointers to Alalunga and Diano, both brands grabbed my attention on a several occasions,
IMO SL is the nicest looking / good quality / best value keeping choice
Within a few years there will be SL72’s with CMC stabs on the used market Mike ;-)
 
Folks, I don't mind at all the (very interesting) o/t, so feel completely free to go ahead here, for debate convenience.

That said, RAI (the IT national television) just broadcasted a fantastic report on the very same area which was the original subject of this thread, so I thought to post an update.
"Lineablu" is the name of this series, focused on the most beautiful sea locations around IT.

And "WOW!" is all I have to say.
Forget my previous pics and clips, they don't even come close to scratching the surface of what that stretch of coast has to offer.
Their professional video, shooted with drones, boats, and also underwater cameras left both myself and swmbo simply speechless.
That's definitely a place where we must come back and spend some time, hopefully sooner rather than later.
Just as an example, I didn't realize that the spot visible in the last half minute of my previous video ("Grotta del Bue Marino") is just the entrance to a labyrinth of caves, both above and underwater, which extends for more than SEVENTY kms, go figure...!

The report is already available for web viewing at this webpage, and even if I'm afraid that there isn't an EN version of the comment, THIS is indeed a video that gives justice to the sheer beauty of the area!
Well done Lineablu, that was a refreshing change vs. all sort of TV garbage which is so popular these days.
 
MapisM said:
The only Maiora I've seen inside was an early 90s 22, and I don't think I would put her above any SL in terms of interior quality - but I can't generalize.
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Maiora like Sanlorenzo are all customs, I was on an SL 82 and was not impressed with the choice of wood etc etc.
Still you get my 2 cents as late eighties till early nineties they where still on the improvement factor.
Chapeau for the Alalunga, and agree on the Diano ;)
 
Deleted User said:
Yes the slap slap of wash at speed and particularly at anchor in windy conditions is particularly irritating on a plastic boat. I had hoped that having a boat with a midships master cabin would reduce this effect for me and the SWMBO but I was disappointed to find out that the slap slap at anchor is just as bad in the midships cabin as the forward cabin. But there is a solution! Ear plugs. In this respect I would be interested to know why this happens. Is it because of the hard chines of a planing boat and are round bilged plastic boats better? Or is it just because of the grp construction which is just very poor at suppressing noise
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The best sleeping cabin for minimal noise is an aft cabin, even hard chined, of course a rare arrangement on a planing boat.
Agree with the ear plugs comment, I don't hesitate to use them if it means the difference between a good sleep or not, especially when flying.
In this country in recent decades the popularity of aluminium to build boats has increased significantly, but if you folks think GRP is noisey to sleep in, these things are like being inside a steel drum with somebody hitting the outside with a stick! ;)
 
vas said:
Mike,

maybe irrelevant, but check it out. On my boat last week I had a couple of friends (for the first time) The guy and his son slept on the two beds on the side cabin, while his wife on the other smaller side cabin,

He's a relatively light sleeper and next morning he inquired about the slapping noise he was hearing, on a flat as a flat thing sea.
Was slightly confused and was trying to figure out what he was on about.
Turns out that the hard chine was meeting the water just under his bed. The ever so slight plafing of the water ripples did actually make a noise that he was picking, not as annoying but as worrying as he didn't know what it was...

So maybe there's a hardchine just where your mid cabin is and you get a stereo sound effect?

cheers

V.
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Hi Vas, congrats on the relaunch of your boat and good to hear you out and about using her.

Just a comment about your guest's observation on the "lapping" sound. This will be a totally new environment to them and of course will be uneasy and alert to any movements or sounds, until they relax into it.
 
AndieMac said:
Hi Vas, congrats on the relaunch of your boat and good to hear you out and about using her.

Just a comment about your guest's observation on the "lapping" sound. This will be a totally new environment to them and of course will be uneasy and alert to any movements or sounds, until they relax into it.
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thanks Andie, will take some time to get everything to a reasonable condition with all systems working properly but family and friends have started already enjoying all this hard effort so I'm happy (and of course enjoying myself as well!)

Re my guests, that's true. Third day he was fine and slept till 9am. I'm not mentioning his wife as on all three days she woke up at 10+ and didn't feel/hear a thing :D

Re timber vs grp superstructure, and general construction, I see a great difference in sounds inside MiToS compared to the Princess 45, 412 and something else around 42ft that a third friend has. Less noisy and softer sounds in general, to the extend that I'll have to find ways of reducing the noise of the straight out exhausts!

Also in the marina, a couple of weeks ago the owner of the P412 came for a visit early afternoon and inquired if I had air-con on (there's an aircon on MiToS, just haven't bothered yet to connect the three hoses (in-out-condensations) so definitely not working. I find MiToS without even shades on the lower helm windshield and not even curtains on the salon yet (working on it...) much cooler than the other craft. Don't forget though I've used heavy rockwool 50mm on all the ceiling lining (both cabins and salon/galley/lower helm) and recycled all 25mm polystyrene (or whatever the original white thing was) installation to the hull sides in the cabins from W/L to ceiling (doubling it up to 50mm for good measure and to avoid throwing away stuff)

I'm not saying that we should all get ply/timber boats, but there are a couple of interesting advantages (which obviously wont overcome the disadvantages...)

cheers

V.
 
Re. Stabilisers,
For me (and swmbo) they are not only usefuill, or nice to have, but for the kind of boating we do they are indispensable,
Both underway and at anker.
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OK I take your point! How are the reconditioned engines btw? All OK?

Within a few years there will be SL72’s with CMC stabs on the used market Mike
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That thought has already occurred to me;)
 
PowerYachtBlog said:
Personally I am not sure I'd go for a Sanlorenzo in that size and type, possibly I would prefer the Alalunga 78 as I think it has a better hull, and a nicer line.
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Thanks PYB. Alalunga is not a name I know very well so good to hear a recommendation
 
vas said:
So maybe there's a hardchine just where your mid cabin is and you get a stereo sound effect?
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Without doubt, vas, the noise comes from the hard chines. The trouble is that every planing boat has chines so finding a planing grp boat that doesn't create these noises will be difficult
 
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