Epsilon Panope test video

[Neeves]

I've been sent this overnight, its early morning here now. I have not looked at it yet but have the comments from my correspondent. I'll have a look later - but as its evening with the UK some may have time to look before bed.

Stay safe, take care

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

I note that Robih posted the vid on the M2 thread, apologies

Jaba made the comment that the test result is disappointing.

edit

and as I said to Jaba's original post (on the other thread) - Rocna also disappoints but no-one has questioned Rocna's obvious success and popularity by those who use it. The contradiction is completely ignored. I have not noticed large piles of rejected Rocna's, large numbers of Rocna's for sale on eBay - which suggests Panope's assessment is rejected in favour of users experience (over the last 15 years).

J

 

[geem]

The results of of all these tests make me think that the only attribute that poeple in the real world notice as a benefit of NG anchors is their ability to set fast and easily. Most people never get to the point that maximum holding ability matters. They have long since moved to a harbour or marina.
Before Panope started his Vids we had the likes of Morgan Cloud saying the Rocna was no good in 180deg resets, but they were actually using the anchor and found that out. I suspect that Panopes Vids are telling us something pretty useful. There is a lot of hype about anchors. I dont always agree with Steves conclusions in his videos but the videos do show useful info. When Steve says an anchor has good holding but its still creeping forward, in my opinion that is dragging. When he says an anchor is secure on his homemade bow roller but its wagling like a crazy thing, I would say its not secure. When he scores an anchor on galvanising, tip weight, engineering and ability to regalvanise he is missing the point. We want to know about holding capacity and which anchor is best. I still like his videos though?

 

[[2574]]

J,

We’ve used Rocna for the past fifteen years, never failed us. Would we throw it out to buy another supposedly better anchor? No. Too much £ invested, hence no piles of rejected Rocna anchors. However, new boat now with a shiny Lewmar claw. so a much more significant design upgrade to something more modern makes sense. Our 30kg stainless Claw will become anchor no. 2 and there as backup in case of loss of the new bower, whatever that might be. So migration away from Rocna will happen though it will take time - maybe another decade. Rocna might amend design in that time - which would maybe compete. If Ford were still flogging the Cortina they’d unlikely sell any......

R

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

Interesting video and yet another anchor with average performance. It would be good to see a Kobra anchor test.

 

[Neeves]

I had been warned - a disappointing performance.

I was disappointed

After the delays, but with the Classification Society accreditation of Super High Holding Power (SHHP) I had expected 'something ' better'.

Looking at the score board, at the end of the video - the Epsilon is better than a Rocna but as Rocna comes last (which I find very difficult to accept) that says very little.

If you are looking for a top of the range anchor, based on the Panope video tests then the ranking is

top to lower

Excel
Mantus M2
Vulcan
Viking
Spade

I had hoped to find fault with the video - the results underlined - it lacked hold (which contradicts the claimed Classification Society testing).

I would agree that the Excel, Spade and Viking are excellent products, I have not tested the Mantus M2 nor Vulcan. Of these only the Viking has a roll bar. and is the only one not to contain ballast. In terms of performance vs weight - the Viking comes out well, if not on top.

In terms of Captain Fantastic's comment - a Kobra wold be an interesting test but its not mainstream in the American market (in fact I don't think its obtainable) so unless some one sends one from Europe - it is unlikely to be tested.

On this basis the Epsilon will replace the Delta but it does not appear to be the world beater hoped for.

In reply to Geems comment, with which I agree - Of the anchors I have tested there is high correlation between 'Holding Capacity' and ease and reliability of setting. So high hold means 'almost' - drop and forget. I exaggerate. Excel and Spade are both rated as SHHP - and they engage quickly and reliably and then hold tenaciously (as also does Manson's Supreme). The outlier is Rocna, which is SHHP and sets easily and reliably - but does not rate under these veering and somersault tests (because the fluke clogs). Now the Epsilon falls outside this simplistic assessment, it is apparently SHHP but appears to lack hold.

There is still a lot about anchor design, performance and testing we have to learn and understand


Take care, stay safe

Jonathan

 

[[70521]]

I still say that the Channel's methodology is all wrong.

 

[doug748]

Many UK based people will be fishing in the bottom half of Panope's list anyway. Usually because the others are difficult/impossible to source here or silly expensive or have questions as to their construction. We still await perfection.

I have both an Epsilon and Rocna (don't ask). One will have to go, I suspect it will be the Rocna as it is just a little too tight in my anchor locker.

Must admit when I first clapped eyes on the Epsilon my first thought was that it could clog up. However it did quite well in re-setting so we shall see.

.

 

[Bouba]

Thanks J for posting this video. I’ve been waiting a long time, and now, what to say? Very very disappointing. The only good point is the short scope holding, that may make it the anchor of choice in the crowded Med in summer. Perhaps it’s intended market?
Once again thanks for saving me €400?

 

[Neeves]

I had fondly imagined the intended market was to counter the threat posed by Rocna and Mantus. Having said that the Delta was priced so well it is difficult to see that anything posed a threat to the market occupied by Delta. The results appear to suggest that Epsilon will provide a replacement for Delta and will be a better anchor.

The idea that it would be a world beater - has evaporated.

Having said that - Rocna is at the bottom of the heap - and is well liked.

In addition to the puzzle of Rocna languishing at the bottom of the pile (and I'm not a fan of Rocna but try to keep my prejudices in check) there is the additional and more serious puzzle as to why there was a constant repetitive undercurrent that the Epsilon was not setting (or having low hold), or not resetting). Is this a fundamental flaw in the methodology or a weakness of the anchor - but, Lewmar, having a claimed Classification Society rating of SHHP and Panope saying it did not reset nor hold very much - was a significant contradiction, to me. Classification Society tests have their critics but they seem to be correct, in terms of SHHP for Supreme, Rocna, Spade, Excel, Ultra, Fortress and for HHP for Delta, CQR, Bruce - so why so wrong for Epsilon?

I agree that most of the anchors that are rated - are extortionate (though what is expensive to someone in Seattle may be not so to someone in the UK). However over, say 5 years, the difference in costs is not that great.

Hindsight is a great gift - someone has said - its an anchor design by a committee.


I have never seen an Epsilon in the flesh (or metal), it looked to have high promise. I had hoped it might be the next step forward - I am concerned at the protocols of the testing and the power of video (coupled with the power of the internet) and that a perfectly good anchor might be easily, and incorrectly, damned. I think the top anchors in the spread sheet are safe and reliable, or the ones I have tested.


I am conscious that it took me, literally, years to understand the characteristics of the Mantus M1 (and I have one to play with), I can be very , very slow (but now it seems so simple and obvious) and I may have missed something in the Panope test procedure(s).

Jonathan