epoxy before varnish?

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richardh10

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I have sanded my tiller and was just about to varnish it when I wondered whether I should epoxy it first. It has been sanded back to bare wood. Any suggestions?
 
Good idea - this is what I have done to mine. It's much more hard wearing and a nicer finish.....just a shame you have to varnish it afterwards to get the required UV protection
 
matt1 said:
Good idea - this is what I have done to mine. It's much more hard wearing and a nicer finish.....just a shame you have to varnish it afterwards to get the required UV protection
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Most important that the epoxy is applied first, but as important is that the varnish has a very high UV protection factor or all your work will be lost.

Avagoodweekend......

.
 
Not necessary on a tiller. Just straight varnish of your choice and a canvas sleeve for when you are not using it. Just think how many hours a year it is not being a tiller and does not need to be exposed! Covered up the finish will last a very long time.
 
Must completely coat the wooden part with epoxy so inside the holes etc so that moisture cannot get underneath any edges of the epoxy. Otherwise I would recomend it and then top un the varnish twice each year.
 
For someting as vulnerable to knocks as a tiller then epoxy as a primer is vital.
The aim of the excercise is to prevent water getting to the wood.
UV protection afterwards is, of course, essential.
A good 2 part polyurethane varnish is your best bet.
Cheers,
Chris
 
I redid a tiller and some plywood washboards about 13 years ago with some very thin, slow-mix penetrating 2-pot PU. The trick is to soak the stuff in layer by layer, because as it penetrates it displaces air in the form of bubbles. Between each coat you have to sand the stuff flat, and for the last coat I used a lambswool roller and dry-brushed the stuff flat. It's still out there somewhere on a sailing-school boat, although it looks tired after African sun!
 
richardh10 said:
I have sanded my tiller and was just about to varnish it when I wondered whether I should epoxy it first. It has been sanded back to bare wood. Any suggestions?
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Over in the States they have a product they call.... Clear Penetrating Epoxy Solution (CPES) I haven't seen this advertised in the UK, however, it is a thin epoxy mix which soaks into the wood. The method of use is to soak the wood with the epoxy solution and when it is "tacky" put you first coat of varnish on (unthinned)
The theory is that the epoxy forms an almost chemical bond with the wood and the varnish after that it is just varnish as normal.......... about 6-8 coats.

I was inspecting several boats this year that had this method of application applied and they were better than anything I have seen before apart from demo boats at shows.

Tom

PS if anybody knows where we can get this in the UK please let me know.
 
LittleShip said:
Over in the States they have a product they call.... Clear Penetrating Epoxy Solution (CPES)
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I used Eposeal 3000 on tiller to good effect. It's a 2 part penetrating epoxy with a viscosity similar to water. It takes several coats to fill the grain in the wood. I overcoated it with Epihanes for UV protection.

I suspect Eposeal and CPES are much the same thing.
 
I have been using Sicomin Wood Impreg 120 for a couple of years now.
Sounds very much like your Anerican stuff. (TWO COMPONENT HIGH GLOSS CLEAR EPOXYPOLYAMINOAMIDE). Available from MCMC in UK.
Very easy to use; after sanding first coat you can then recoat without sanding within limits. I recommend 4 coats.
A good polyurethane varnish recommended as UV protection on top. I would say min. 5 coats. You then have something that looks like 20 coats of Epifanes on it.
Cheers,
Chris
 
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Here is the web link to Smith Company, makers of CPES or clear penetrating expoy mentioned by the master mariner of LittleShip. Also known as Restores-It, CPES will help give a chemical bond between your varnish and wood. Apply one or two coats of CPES and let it kick off. Apply varnish before CPES is fully cured.

http://www.smithandcompany.org/

Bernie
 
I'd give you a strong vote AGAINST epoxy.

7 years ago I epoxied everything in sight before varnishing.

Maybe I wasn't conscientious enough in constantly revarnishing, but everything had at least four, mostly six coats of varnish on top.

It all failed into an unsightly mess with UV damage over time.

I'm now a true believer in traditional varnish for traditional jobs. (Epifanes is my favourite tipple.)
 
In the summer here in the Med the UV is extreme.
To maintain "perfection" varnish you need to 320 grit and recoat every 6-8 weeks.
Applying epoxy as a primer does not mean you should alter your varnishing regime.
Carry on as though it's not there.
Cheers,
Chris
 
katoosh525 said:
Historically importation from Sweden, at not insignificant cost. Now available in the UK and across wider Europe generally from http://makewoodgood.com
I can assure you that used as described above, as a wood primer, with the first coat applied 24 hours after the last coat of CPES it will make the varnish last much longer and look fabulous. Works a treat on your wooden windows / doors as well. Also ideal for restoring damaged / decayed / rotten wood too.
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Thanks for the link.
Dear stuff isn't it?
 
katoosh525 said:
Historically importation from Sweden, at not insignificant cost. Now available in the UK and across wider Europe generally from http://makewoodgood.com
I can assure you that used as described above, as a wood primer, with the first coat applied 24 hours after the last coat of CPES it will make the varnish last much longer and look fabulous. Works a treat on your wooden windows / doors as well. Also ideal for restoring damaged / decayed / rotten wood too.
Click to expand...
I'm just guessing that you have found these old threads in order to promote makewoodgood.com....
 
Amulet said:
I'd give you a strong vote AGAINST epoxy.

7 years ago I epoxied everything in sight before varnishing.

Maybe I wasn't conscientious enough in constantly revarnishing, but everything had at least four, mostly six coats of varnish on top.

It all failed into an unsightly mess with UV damage over time.

I'm now a true believer in traditional varnish for traditional jobs. (Epifanes is my favourite tipple.)
Click to expand...


I've re-done my tiller, down to bare wood, cleaned up an glued back together again. West System Epoxy with microfibres to thicken the mixture to glue the two halves together. Worked fine. The thinner epoxy mix I coated the bare wood with - several times - flatting with 240 to 400 wet and Dry . The anti UV varnish on top (after a respectable time gap) was several coats flatted back in between.
I then finished off with some 1000/2000 wet&dry and rubbing compound/AKA T- cut to a very good finish. It's been on 3 seasons and looks good (feels good !) No real issue with UV (what's that -in Scotland!!), but plenty of weather and still looks decent.
I would be wary of doing it to large surfaces, since flatting epoxy is pretty hard work once it has set. Tillers - should be no real problem, fit a sock if you are worried by exposure to the environment?

Graeme
 
Traditional yacht varnish only is my vote. Its tough and flexible. Don't need epoxy.

Never use polyurethane varnish outside as its hard and brittle.
 
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