epoxy and varnish, which one first
- Thread starter colvic987
- Start date
Amulet
Well-Known Member
If you must epoxy, then all the advice about UV protection already given is correct. If you get lazy about recoating to renew the UV protection the whole lot will fail with UV damage and look a complete mess. Trust me - I know!
I'm afraid my reluctant opinion is that there isn't a way to a lasting good finish without work. Lots of coats of traditional varnish. I'm an epifanes man - but people tell me that I'm being conned into an expensive solution.
I'd seriously advise you to give up on epoxy as a coating unless your boat spends most of its time under a cover.
If you must have a quick and labour saving solution I'd go with Skipper two part varnishes, which seem to stay on over time, even if they don't mellow as gracefully as traditional varnish. I have it on my mast. I have the impression it bleaches with exposure, rather than acquiring the increasingly warm color of trad varnish.
I have now eradicated all the epoxy which I used enthusiastically as a coating some years ago.
(I love epoxy by the way - but as a bonder and filler.)
I'm afraid my reluctant opinion is that there isn't a way to a lasting good finish without work. Lots of coats of traditional varnish. I'm an epifanes man - but people tell me that I'm being conned into an expensive solution.
I'd seriously advise you to give up on epoxy as a coating unless your boat spends most of its time under a cover.
If you must have a quick and labour saving solution I'd go with Skipper two part varnishes, which seem to stay on over time, even if they don't mellow as gracefully as traditional varnish. I have it on my mast. I have the impression it bleaches with exposure, rather than acquiring the increasingly warm color of trad varnish.
I have now eradicated all the epoxy which I used enthusiastically as a coating some years ago.
(I love epoxy by the way - but as a bonder and filler.)
xtiffer
Well-Known Member
I think many people here are rating epoxy according tıo it's performance
years ago. When I first experimented with West some years ago
it was very difficult to work with as a coating; too much sanding needed.
Now there are new products such as the ones I mentioned in my previous post
( still waiting for comments on that) which are fantastic.
For years I was an Epifanes luddite varnisher ( still am to a large extent)
but this new technology/chemistry is worth trying.
I am a pro varnisher and using this stuff on a daily/weekly basis.
Try asking what the varnishers on high end classic yachts use.
Cheers,
Chris
years ago. When I first experimented with West some years ago
it was very difficult to work with as a coating; too much sanding needed.
Now there are new products such as the ones I mentioned in my previous post
( still waiting for comments on that) which are fantastic.
For years I was an Epifanes luddite varnisher ( still am to a large extent)
but this new technology/chemistry is worth trying.
I am a pro varnisher and using this stuff on a daily/weekly basis.
Try asking what the varnishers on high end classic yachts use.
Cheers,
Chris
oldsaltoz
Well-Known Member
For what it's worth I never use any varnish on any part of the boat but for a couple of very small areas below deck.
I can think of nothing made of varnished timber that can not be replaced with other materials that require either a lot less or no maintenance at all.
I'd rather be sailing than sanding any day.
I do love the look of a nice classic boat with varnished everything, but the time and effort needed to maintain that look is just too much to even think about.
I can think of nothing made of varnished timber that can not be replaced with other materials that require either a lot less or no maintenance at all.
I'd rather be sailing than sanding any day.
I do love the look of a nice classic boat with varnished everything, but the time and effort needed to maintain that look is just too much to even think about.
Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
I have to agree. My current boat has s/s handrails, cockpit rails and tiller.
planteater
Well-Known Member
Glad I'm not the only one - each year I replace some exterior wood with something requiring less maintenance.
Where I do still have wood (i.e. rubbing strake, tiller) I have saturated it with SP300 penetrating epoxy which is then protected with a couple of coats of epifanes. This has worked well for me.
Where I do still have wood (i.e. rubbing strake, tiller) I have saturated it with SP300 penetrating epoxy which is then protected with a couple of coats of epifanes. This has worked well for me.
xtiffer
Well-Known Member
Amulet
Well-Known Member
Xtiffer - has epoxy really changed that much? I think the West coating system is pretty much what I used 7-8 years ago, which certainly flows better with the coating catalyst. If the UV damage problem could be solved it'd be a huge step. I simply wasn't conscientious enough about overcoating it - I accept the blame - but Epifanes with comparable neglect does look better. Maybe if you can afford a classic yacht you can afford an expert to keep its varnish in trim. The other criticism of epoxy is that it is is not very abrasion resistant - which has been a problem where lines cross it etc.
I'd love to be wrong about it, as it's an easy way of producing a stunning finish. It looks great on my model yacht.
I'd love to be wrong about it, as it's an easy way of producing a stunning finish. It looks great on my model yacht.
Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
Funny. I have found the exact opposite. Rubbing down epoxy coated panels has been a nightmare, it's so hard.
Does it depend on the type of epoxy?
I use one supplied by Fyne Boats with a 40 minute activator.
xtiffer
Well-Known Member
The clear epoxy-polyaminoamide that I use (Wood Impreg 120)
has a degree of flexibility that deals well with glue joints etc.
Think of it as a clear epoxy primer rather than a glue.
That was not what I found with West but, in truth, I have not used it for coating for a few years.
The abrasion problem with West can be resolved by using glass matrix
on the vulnerable parts.Sheets to a winch going over the cockpit
coaming being a good example.
Once the uv problem is solved then the epoxy producers are
really going to have that "magic" product.
Now I just have to coat it with 2 part PU varnish or even Epifanes 1 pot,
to get the UV protection.
The depth of coat is amazing; 3 coats of Wood Impreg followed by
5 coats of 2 part PU varnish looks like 20 coats of Epifanes.
BTW I have no commercial interest in this product, just a happy user.
Cheers,
Chris
has a degree of flexibility that deals well with glue joints etc.
Think of it as a clear epoxy primer rather than a glue.
That was not what I found with West but, in truth, I have not used it for coating for a few years.
The abrasion problem with West can be resolved by using glass matrix
on the vulnerable parts.Sheets to a winch going over the cockpit
coaming being a good example.
Once the uv problem is solved then the epoxy producers are
really going to have that "magic" product.
Now I just have to coat it with 2 part PU varnish or even Epifanes 1 pot,
to get the UV protection.
The depth of coat is amazing; 3 coats of Wood Impreg followed by
5 coats of 2 part PU varnish looks like 20 coats of Epifanes.
BTW I have no commercial interest in this product, just a happy user.
Cheers,
Chris
tony198
New Member
You can get issues with going straight over the top of epoxy with a single pack varnish. Basically if the epoxy has been cleaned properly and all the amine blush removed it can inhibit the drying of the varnish. The safest way is a coat of a pu varnish as a tie coat then your chosen varnish over the top easy maintenance.
But still need to clean the epoxy well, best way is to wash with vinegar and soapy water then sand and then wash again, try to avoid acetone as it can open the epoxy and make it 'chewy'
But still need to clean the epoxy well, best way is to wash with vinegar and soapy water then sand and then wash again, try to avoid acetone as it can open the epoxy and make it 'chewy'
katoosh525
New Member
OOOh, certainly if you are using CPES you should apply the first coat of Paint / Varnish before the last coat of CPES is fully cured(24 hours is about right), it will be touch dry, but not fully cured. It will then chemically bond to the surface coat. That is a good part of the reason why the finish will then last so well. Full instructions are here: http://www.makewoodgood.com/catalogue-2/multiwoodprime/
I would always advise the use of two pack varnishes, more effort but more durable.
Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
The Original Poster is probably ready to re-varnish by now as it's 4 years after he asked the question. 
katoosh525
New Member
I presume you mean 'Hasn't been cleaned properly' Tony
Or alternatively buy non blush epoxy resins, a bit dearer, the old time is money trade once more.