Entering The Port of Liverpool

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Miker

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I'm planning to sail to Liverpool marina, weather and wind permitting, and am wondering what the procedures are, if any, for entering Queen's Channel. I've been told to call up Liverpool Coastguard on Ch12 which seems odd. Should I call up Mersey Radio on Ch12, or just listen in on that channel and 16?
 
I sailed from Liverpool marina for a while...(good while longer than I intended and have been glad of escape ever since, purely personal opinion of course) listen carefully on the HM channel and on 16. keep out of the way of the ships, plenty of them but also plenty of room, and make allowance for the tide as you go into the lock..it moves quite swiftly. If the sail racers are around let them go first beacause they really don't give one! Good luck!
 
Sailed at Liverpool for many years. The Channel is well marked. Don't be tempted to enter the channel anywhere other than at the end there are traing walls and plenty of sandbanks. I used to Aim for The Formby mid channel mark which is at the end of the channel and move over to the starboard side of the channel when a mile or two away. What you need to realise is the entance area is vast with many marks so you are as well going for something a bit more distinctive. If it's misty or dark it's difficult to pick your way down the starboard side, the port side is easier to follow but you need to tell Mersey Radio (12). Don't be tempted to go outside the line of marks the wall is not very far beyond them (either side), don't skip a mark at the bend .
I used to come and go regularly without informing Mersey Radio but they do prefer to be told. The tide is very strong, up to 4 knots in the outer channel and it runs out all the way up to 4-5 hours before high tide, it's not worth going in early.
Wind over tide can create very large seas way out of proportion to wind strength, generally not a problem though up to F8-9.
 
If you want to avoid the Queens / Crosby drag and are coming from the West you can enter the river at New Brighton through the Rock Channel (named after Perch rock, not the ground which is sand) within 2 hours of high water with 3m of water. 1 mile from Brazil LANBY steer a course towards it of 110, It will almost transit with the dock gate lights of Alfred dock on the Liverpool shore. At Brazil, just follow the bouyed Channel. This route, 1 hour before HW, gets you to the Lock about slack with little tide and also little traffic.
If using the Queens, enter at Q5, with min depth of 3m, not the bar lanby where conditions can be lively in westerlies over the ebb.
Personally, I have never bothered with radioing CG or Merseyradio in the Queens and never had a problem.
Andy
 
Sorry to flame this one but I really couldn't recommend the Rock channel to a stranger. I'm not a over cautious type but I would only suggest it to somebody who's been down the normal channel at least once. Do it by all means but I would suggest you go out via the rock channel first before you go in that way. Has anyone got any GPS waypoints for it ? if so consider it but not in bad vis or weather.
 
Hmm- why out and not in? On the way in you're on a rising tide with an array of transits and structures to watch. On the way out you're on a falling tide with only reverse bearings to rely on. When I was in Liverpool there seemed to be a phobia about the Rock channel which was completely unjustified, perhaps because it is unbuoyed which seems the only nav aid some boaters will trust. Conwy is the same - on 8M tides boats drawing less than 1M will zig zag out down the buoyed channel when there is 4M of water least depth over the bank. The bottom is sand with no steep banks - if you don't feel confident navigating the rock then you should question whether you should use a river with 5 knt tides and Tankers and planning ferries around.
Andy
 
Completely agree with you re both the rock and Conwy; both routes save a lot of time and mucking about! Have you noticed that when taking the direct route over the bank at Conwy that the zigzaggers tend to point, suck their teeth and predict imediate shipwreck? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Thanks everyone for the welcome advice. I shall be approaching from the north so I thought that entering Queens Channel at Q4 would be best. From the chart, sailing over Taylors Bank looks a bit dodgy. I shall want to arrive at the marina at HW so allowing 3 hours for the 15 M from Q4 seems ample, given the tidal flow. I've just got the Port of Liverpool chart and the strength of the tide surprised me. It shouldn't have, seeing that I sail out of Fleetwood.
As with a lot of my sailing planning, it will probably be blowing a gale so I'll stay at home, or the wind will be in the wrong direction and I'll end up sailing to Douglas or Whitehaven.
 
Interesting! I've only been into Conwy two or three times and always zigzag down the channel when it would be much shorter taking more or less a direct route from Great Orme. I draw 1.8m with the keel down. Is there any rule of thumb for the depth of water over Conwy Sands?
 
Conwy

Mike
Any tide higher than 9M at Liverpool then the bank can crossed anywhere within 1Hr of HW ( I draw 1.7m and maintain 1m beneath keel). On smaller tides I would recommend entering the channel immediately east of C8 ( approx 53.18.00, 3.18.05') which cuts out the dogleg in the channel and the hump in the bank opposite the river mouth. Alternativly, use the partly bouyed East channel on any tide which runs parallel to the Orme about 1/2 mile off.
Andy
 
[ QUOTE ]
Hmm- why out and not in? On the way in you're on a rising tide with an array of transits and structures to watch. On the way out you're on a falling tide with only reverse bearings to rely on. When I was in Liverpool there seemed to be a phobia about the Rock etc etc

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes there is a fine array of transits if you know them and can actually see them.

You are obviously so much better than the rest of us with phobias that maybe you should hang about the perch and guide us all in and out !
The reason I suggested exiting the rock first is that the start of the channel is a long way out making the transits difficult to see and identify from seaward.

You are after all talking about someone who has not been there before. The answer to the question is it seamanlike to enter that way for the first time is no. It's easy when you know how.
 
I have sailed big boats in and out of Liverpoool many times. Please do call Mersey Radio on 12 when you enter the channel and tell them who you are, what you are, where you are and where you are going. Then monitor ch12 and report your position at each of the calling in points marked on the chart. ie act in a professional manner.

Many small yachts don't bother but Mersey Radio like to know who that dot on the radar is and they will let you know who is moving which can be very useful.

Particularly at night I find the approach to Liverpool quite challenging, it is 'big', there can be fast moving big traffic, lots of tide, there are various dog-legs in the channel and lights can be very hard to pick-out against the shore lights. So I suggest you plan it carefully, it is one approach where I always tick off the buoys with time and log as I pass them. In difficult conditions radar is wonderful as all the bouys show up beautifuly and a confusing situation suddenly becomes crystal clear.
 
Seadog
I'm not sure what you mean. I can see the Liverpool waterfront as soon as I round the Orme, 40 miles away - or do you mean if its foggy sailing is more difficult? I think everyone knows that.
If you don't like the Rock that's fine but don't flame (your own words) others that are prepared to navigate other than by following vessels in front. I don't want to pilot vessels in, I assume that someone who can navigate Morecambe bay out of Fleetwood, as I am sure Mike can, is also able to sail over a gently shoaling sandbank in plenty of water if it means avoiding a narow channel full of 10,000+ tonnage shipping - I know which I'd prefer in low vis. You hav'nt really addressed my main point on why using th eRock outbound i easier than inbound.
Happy buoy hopping,
Andy
 
Michael
As many have said the channel can be a challenge and you will have to use it coming from the north, watch out for the ferries they produce a sizable wash at slow speeds and as already stated stay to the edges of the channel. The lock to the marina is 2hrs before and 2 hrs after again try to arrive at high water as the tide can make it fun?? and call the lock on chn 37 (Liverpool marina)
Liverpool is a friendly marina and you will be able to get a reasonable meal at the harbourside restaurant. You can if you wish walk into Liverpool center in approx 20mins, Albert Dock is about 1 mile away and China town is worth a visit.
Just as a point of interest, the Clipper round the world yacht race starts on the 18th September from Albert dock, you would be well advised contacting the marina to get a berth booked if you intend to visit that weekend.
Send me a PM and if I'm around I will show you the bar area..............erm at your expense?
Now then......... what do you know about Peel Island........ I want to spend the night there later this month so I can get into Glasson Dock?????

All the best
Tom
 
It is a long time since I have sailed in this area but use to use rock channel and in those days we only had DECCA, but it had 3 buoys placed by locals called "chip" "spud" "mash" have these now gone?

John
 
Re: Piel island

I sail to Piel regularly as it is a good (the only) stopping place for a between the tides sail from Fleetwood - a fry up and a pint (Tetleys) at the pub on the island - don't be fooled by the Mitchells sign. The pub does pie and pies but I've never sampled them. I think that they listen in to Ch16 if you want to call them up in advance. You can pick up a buoy at all states of the tide - obviously not too close in if you will be there at low tide. There is a jetty for a trip to the pub. To be safe, enter the Barrow Channel at Halfway Shoal (or beyond) at LW. Some boats go straight across Mort Bank from Piel to Lune No1 for Glasson at half tide to HW. I personally avoid Mort Bank. If I have any doubts about the depth I sail back to SEA7 and head for Blackpool Tower until around 54.00N when I go for the Fleetwood fairway. If the depth drops below 10 ft I turn out to sea. The sea can get a bit choppy around Walney Island with wind over tide but Piel itself is quite sheltered.
I'd be interested in the views of other Piel Island sailors.
 
Enter the Queens channel at Q4 and follow the buoys all the way up, the are all large and close together and well charted. I went up the Mersey for the Festival in June for the first time and had no difficulty, just monitior VHF ch 12 and 16.
 
Yes I remember SPUD CHIP and MASH up to about 8 years ago. Then there was one and a year later none. I remember them being a bunch of oil drums strapped together. I have no idea what's there now. I didn't bother with GPS for it (or the marks) I found a good transit that was very effective. If the vis wasn't good enough for the transit it was the Queens Channel.
I never found the larger traffic to be a problem but I always called Mersey Radio at night, bad vis or lots of traffic.

I did a beat out into the bay on a race through the Rock, it was fairly rough, there wasn't a lot of water at the end of the tacks I swear I could see the bottom in the troughs. It was like a scene from Hawaii Five O, I wished I had a Hi fi system to belt out the theme tune. It was madness, there is a wreck that comes into play around there if you push it.
 
Lots of ships used to sail into Liverpool. May I suggest you let Mersey Radio - and all others on frequency - know by VHF where and what you are and where you have got to step-by-step. Anticipate the SuperSeacat HSS coming and going at considerable speed, and - I suggest - note carefully whether Mersey Radio tells the SSC-HSS bridge team about you. If not, *you* tell 'em.

For your benefit, they need to know, and 'someone' at Mersey Radio has been known to call them with 'No known traffic' when more than one yacht was transitting the channel, checked-in and on-frequency.

Repeating what someone else has recommended, anticipate a very strong cross-tide at the entrance to the dock-lock.

Finally, for the long-distance voyagers, there's a covered market about 300 metres away that does excellent vittles, including long-life, liveaboard bread. Good for Liverpool - La Corunna and halfway back!
 
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