Ensigns - only British?

[mcframe]

"British flag.

(1)The flag which every British ship is entitled to fly is the red ensign (without any defacement or modification) and, subject to subsections (2) and (3) below, no other colours"

Quite

Read the whole thing.

*Entitled* is the operative word.

Section 1 explains what a British Ship is.
Section 2 explains what we're entitled , but not required to wear.
Section 3 relates to appearing British if you're not and concealing British nationality.
Section 4 relates to improper colours (i.e. is a Cornish/Scots ensign "distinctive national colours"? The suggestions here seem to imply not.)
Section 5 explains when a "British Flag" (i.e. the Red) is required

It's rather subtle, and IMO quite well-phrased.

 

[andygc]

Section 5 explains when a "British Flag" (i.e. the Red) is required .

Which was, of course, the point Tranona was making when commenting on Ianhampshire's use of a funny flag when sailing outside British waters and in and out of foreign ports.

PS
Not just the Red: "the red ensign or other proper national colours" so white, blue, pale blue, and various defaced versions in accordance with a warrant or permit are all fine and will continue to confuse the OP's friend.

 

[mcframe]

Which was, of course, the point Tranona was making when commenting on Ianhampshire's use of a funny flag when sailing outside British waters and in and out of foreign ports.

PS
Not just the Red: "the red ensign or other proper national colours" so white, blue, pale blue, and various defaced versions in accordance with a warrant or permit are all fine and will continue to confuse the OP's friend.

Exactly - the friend could be further confused by the lowering of a 2 yard Cornish ensign and the hoisting of a 1/3rd yard British Flag *just* for entering & leaving a foreign port ;-)

I don't think an offence is committed solely by flying a funny flag outside (or even inside) British waters, 'tho.

 

[Tranona]

It occurs to me that the miriad of British registered boats in Scotland that fly the flag of St Andrew as their ensign are all liable to prosecution however for some reason that doesnt happen ? Why do we think that might be ?

Because they are in UK waters where there is no requirement to fly an ensign.

You seem to have a blind spot to the fact that your boat is not in UK territorial waters, therefore it should fly (or wear) the correct ensign, not your own made up flag.

The fact that you claim to be an ex Naval officer makes your ridiculous "view" on the subject (where one cannot have a view - you either comply or you don't) even more laughable.

 

[theoldplucker]

The issue of the Cornish ensign is simple - it's black & white.

I once dipped a Cornish Ensign to the Royal Yacht Brittania. She dipped her ensign in return. If it's good enough for the Royal Yacht to acknowledge, it's good enough for the English subjects.

 

[KevO]

The issue of the Cornish ensign is simple - it's black & white.

I once dipped a Cornish Ensign to the Royal Yacht Brittania. She dipped her ensign in return. If it's good enough for the Royal Yacht to acknowledge, it's good enough for the English subjects.

Had a similar experience with a grey funnel job too... It was HMS Cornwall though....

 

[mcframe]

You seem to have a blind spot to the fact that your boat is not in UK territorial waters, therefore it should fly (or wear) the correct ensign, not your own made up flag.

<thunk>

Should != must, unless one is in the bit of non-UK-territorial waters that is "entering or leaving any foreign port"*

Nit pickers-R-Us ;-)

*under 50 GT**, and not being signalled at by one of HM's ships, natch.
** Note Small Ship (<24M) exemption for entering or leaving any British port

 

[Ianhampshire]

Because they are in UK waters where there is no requirement to fly an ensign.

You seem to have a blind spot to the fact that your boat is not in UK territorial waters, therefore it should fly (or wear) the correct ensign, not your own made up flag.

The fact that you claim to be an ex Naval officer makes your ridiculous "view" on the subject (where one cannot have a view - you either comply or you don't) even more laughable.

I don't just 'claim' to be an ex Royal Naval officer, I was one.

I'm glad however that you now see the whole point of what I do, to make people smile or even laugh and im glad its now having the same effect on you. Far better than getting all pompous and quoting rules about what I should or shouldn't do.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

I would take a guess the point the lady was making was it would appear alot simpler, less dated and more common sense to simply use the national flag, which is recongnisable to all.

It isnt. When I flew the Y Ddraig Goch in Spain almost no one except the Brits recognised it.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

many members are not upper clas twits rathe they are the salt of the earth lower deckers.

In my humble opinion the inverse snobbery of the 'only the red mob' is most distastefull

Beautiful!

 

[BrianH]

You seem to have a blind spot to the fact that your boat is not in UK territorial waters, therefore it should fly (or wear) the correct ensign, not your own made up flag.

Herein lies the crux of the matter; complying with international requirements may just save ourselves some potential grief with foreign bureaucracy.

I was once in a crowded Croatian anchorage next to a rather scruffy ketch showing no ensign, although there was a Croatian courtesy flag on the starboard spreader halyard. A maritime police boat came into the bay and zeroed in on my neighbour and hailed him. He answered in German to which the policeman answered fluently and requested his documentation. They were near enough for me to hear the entire conversation, which was something of an ordeal as the police requested and examined in detail document after document, followed by a long-winded dressing-down for not wearing his Austrian ensign, all delivered in a very threatening and unpleasant tone.

I had gone below to get my own set of documents ready but after the final comment to my neighbour the cutter left, ignoring all the other anchored yachts. I hate to think what they may have said to some unofficial, non-state ensign - they were certainly not of the mentality to smile at such idiosyncratic gestures.

 

[Tranona]

I don't just 'claim' to be an ex Royal Naval officer, I was one.

I'm glad however that you now see the whole point of what I do, to make people smile or even laugh and im glad its now having the same effect on you. Far better than getting all pompous and quoting rules about what I should or shouldn't do.

Except that I am not laughing at what you do, but laughing at YOU for adopting such a stupid attitude - and thinking you are being funny!

 

[Ianhampshire]

God what a boring little man you are. I've tried to inject a little humour into a thread and you just can't see it can you. Never mind, have a feeling that this topic has been done to death and time to move on.

 

[Tranona]

God what a boring little man you are. I've tried to inject a little humour into a thread and you just can't see it can you. Never mind, have a feeling that this topic has been done to death and time to move on.

You don't know me, so have no idea whether I am boring - or anything else.

Why are you trying to "inject humour" when the humour is in YOU, not the subject. I can see exactly where you are coming from and I find your attitude VERY FUNNY. Which is why I laugh every time I see one of your absurd justifications for why you think what you do is humorous.

 

[Ianhampshire]

Your pompous posts clearly show your lack of humour and an adiction to the regulations. I didnt have a problem with that until you started to get personal at which point I lost interest.

 

[TrueBlue]

It's such a shame that threads which start with some good humoured banter rapidly descend into pomposity and mud slinging.

In this case it doesn't really matter what One wears in coastal waters, indeed sometimes it give a bit of pleasure to see folks saying "I'm from Zummerrset" or Scotland or whatever and a bit of extra "colour" to an otherwise drab and conformist scene.

Out of coastal waters, then it becomes a more serious matter - and I'm not qualified to comment.

But hugging the coast, or on a ditch it doesn't really matter.
Just lighten up folks and enjoy our maritime past......
('cos we don't seem to have much of a maritime future - now there's a throwaway line to get the guns flaring!)

 

[KevO]

Agreed...

 

[monkfish24]

Agreed...

That's the only grey funnel ship cornwall will have the pleasure of beind defended by under "cornwall colours"......


You pitch them, I'll bat em KevO

 

[KevO]

Mate, don't laugh... that could be the ONLY one left anywhere in the UK soon...