zarathustra
Well-Known Member
I would take a guess the point the lady was making was it would appear alot simpler, less dated and more common sense to simply use the national flag, which is recongnisable to all.
Ensigns - only British?
- Thread starter sighmoon
- Start date
I would take a guess the point the lady was making was it would appear alot simpler, less dated and more common sense to simply use the national flag, which is recongnisable to all.
mcframe
Well-Known Member
If there hadn't been any ships that /now/ wear the Red, then there would have been no /need/ for the ships that now wear the Blue and the White.
Therefore, the plain Red is superior.
OK, my Red (alone) doesn't quite pay for the current Blue & White, but historically, they did.
Discuss, only write on one side of your screen.
Poignard
Well-Known Member
Maybe it would do to some Joannah-Foreigner from a country where everything people do is regulated by law. But in this country people are free to do what they like, as long as there is no specific law forbidding it.
We should continue to enjoy that freedom while we can, even if does result in people doing things that sometimes annoy other people (though why what ensign anyone uses should annoy anyone else is difficult for a rational person to understand).
No doubt the time will come when we all have to use the EU ensign and I for one will be sorry to see another bit of English eccentricity or bloody-mindedness disappear.
maxi77
Well-Known Member
Well I have sailed with all three, red white and blue. It all depends on the circumstances. And when I sailed with the white it was not RYS but and RN training vessel under the command of a navalofficer. As pointed out elsewhere RNSA members can fly the blue and many members are not upper clas twits rathe they are the salt of the earth lower deckers.
In my humble opinion the inverse snobbery of the 'only the red mob' is most distastefull and denigrates our rich maritime history.
And yes I fly the Blue because I am a member of an exclusive club, I am an RN veteran, as are most of those who sail under the RNSA burgee.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
The ensign is just as recognisable. Why would it be simpler, less dated and commonsense to fly a "flag" that is so debased you can buy a pair of boxer shorts made out of it?
The ensign is a sign of the registration of the ship. Nothing to do with nationality per se, just there to signal to officials in other countries that the ship is British. If people want to attach any other significance to it, that is their affair.
chinita
Well-Known Member
...and you earned that privilege rather than pay for it.
zarathustra
Well-Known Member
You are the one to mention annoyment, the OP said it made the lady laugh. As for your comments regarding "freedom", I find it amusing and the OP made no mention of any freedoms being withdrawn, you appear very sensitive or quick to take offence, perhaps you dislike the womans freedom to chuckle at your coloured cloth. Yes it is your right to enjoy the freedom of flying the coloured cloth, just so long as you choose the colour ensign selected for you or your club!!!
KevO
Well-Known Member
In Elizabethan times the Naval fleet grew large enough to be organized into squadrons. The admiral’s squadron wore a red ensign, the vice admiral’s white, and the rear admiral’s blue. As the squadrons grew, each was eventually commanded by an Admiral (with Vice Admirals and Rear Admirals commanding sections) and the official titles became Admiral of the White, etc.
The squadrons ranked in order Red, White, and Blue, with admirals ranked according to their squadron:
Admiral of the Red (Admiral of the Fleet)
Admiral of the White
Admiral of the Blue
Vice Admiral of the Red
Vice Admiral of the White
Vice Admiral of the Blue
Rear Admiral of the Red
Rear Admiral of the White
Rear Admiral of the Blue
Make sense now??
The squadrons ranked in order Red, White, and Blue, with admirals ranked according to their squadron:
Admiral of the Red (Admiral of the Fleet)
Admiral of the White
Admiral of the Blue
Vice Admiral of the Red
Vice Admiral of the White
Vice Admiral of the Blue
Rear Admiral of the Red
Rear Admiral of the White
Rear Admiral of the Blue
Make sense now??
zarathustra
Well-Known Member
I am refering to a non-mariner from outside of UK's point of view, who will recognise the Union Jack or the English flags and not be so familiar with the ensign, I am assuming this is why she chuckled, added to the different coloured ensigns. I am not saying there is no purpose to the ensign, just looking at it from a non-boaters viewpoint, many of whom view the ensigns as something from times past.
Ariadne
Well-Known Member
What fly shall I reel you in on next time then; an Allis Shrimp, Black Butcher, Diawl Bach........?
You get the cigar for taking my post far too seriously, and being too far stuck up a flag pole. I rest my case about multiple ensigns.
Ianhampshire
Well-Known Member
My boat is MCA Part 1 registered and therefore I should, and most of the time do, fly the Red Ensign. However, I keep the boat in Kiel and sail in the Baltic and have discovered that by flying my 'Cornish Ensign' I have many more people come over to say hello, to chat and above all to ask what the ensign is.
KevO
Well-Known Member
Kernow bys vyken!
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Think you will find what you are doing is illegal. There is no such thing as a "Cornish ensign". The law requires you to wear an ensign as defined in the Merchant Shipping Act. Not sure an ensign is designed to attract people for you to have conversations with!
Ianhampshire
Well-Known Member
You're quite right, it is illegal however (a) obviously there is such a thing as a cornish ensign as its currently attached to my stern unless it's a figment of my immagination (b) I fly it to signify my cornish identity and that of my boat which is registered in Falmouth. I don't fly it to attract people to have conversations with, that's just a side benefit and (c) I don't personnaly believe the MCA will call in their solicitors just yet given they have many more serious and pressing issues to deal with.
We sailors all love our boats, we personnalise them and we are by nature people who have a streak of the independent in us, thats part of why we sail. I hurt nobody by flying my ensign and maybe I even raise a smile or two by doing so... not a bad thing in this day and age really.
We sailors all love our boats, we personnalise them and we are by nature people who have a streak of the independent in us, thats part of why we sail. I hurt nobody by flying my ensign and maybe I even raise a smile or two by doing so... not a bad thing in this day and age really.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
The correct way of signalling your Cornish identity is with a house flag, not with an illegal "ensign" of your own making.
The ensign is nothing to do with YOUR "identity" but signifies the state of registration of the boat.
I have no objection to people showing their identity, but please do it in the correct way rather than making up your own.
andygc
Well-Known Member
Given that they have to meet government budget cuts and the maximum fine on summary conviction is £50,000 (Merchant Shipping Act 1995 S.3), that could be a very good reason for calling in the DPP.
Saguday
Well-Known Member
Ooh goody, thanks, great idea!
I'm off to create my own ensign 'cos I'm from Somerset and I'm special too - it'll be green with Wurzels upper left and cider apples rampant
maxi77
Well-Known Member
Mind you you can pay for some pretty expensive clubs and not get a blue out of it. I really don't get this inverse snobbery and having a down on people who have more money than yourself, life should be more fun than that.
maxi77
Well-Known Member
In Elizabethan times the Naval fleet grew large enough to be organized into squadrons. The admiral’s squadron wore a red ensign, the vice admiral’s white, and the rear admiral’s blue. As the squadrons grew, each was eventually commanded by an Admiral (with Vice Admirals and Rear Admirals commanding sections) and the official titles became Admiral of the White, etc.
The squadrons ranked in order Red, White, and Blue, with admirals ranked according to their squadron:
Admiral of the Red (Admiral of the Fleet)
Admiral of the White
Admiral of the Blue
Vice Admiral of the Red
Vice Admiral of the White
Vice Admiral of the Blue
Rear Admiral of the Red
Rear Admiral of the White
Rear Admiral of the Blue
Make sense now??
The fleet only got that size because it was 'contacted out' Lizzy 1 only owned a few ships most of the fleet were privately owned ships either hire for the event or with Letters of Marque.
DaveRo
Well-Known Member
Merchant Shipping Act 1995 PART I Section 2
That specifies what ensign British ships are entitled to fly. And I think that there is an regulation that says you must fly one if outside home waters - is that correct?
Is there any regulation on the (minimum) size of an ensign?
That specifies what ensign British ships are entitled to fly. And I think that there is an regulation that says you must fly one if outside home waters - is that correct?
Is there any regulation on the (minimum) size of an ensign?