Ensigns - only British?

[sighmoon]

A foriegn freind had a good chuckle about the British ensign system where social standing and which club you belong to takes up more space on your flag than which country you're from.

Is there any other country with anything similar?

 

[Leighb]

A foriegn freind had a good chuckle about the British ensign system where social standing and which club you belong to takes up more space on your flag than which country you're from.

Is there any other country with anything similar?

Several other European countries have "special" ensigns relating to which club you belong to.

Certainly we see defaced Belgian and Netherlands ensigns here regularly, and I think there are some Danish clubs which have a special ensign.

 

[Tranona]

A foriegn freind had a good chuckle about the British ensign system where social standing and which club you belong to takes up more space on your flag than which country you're from.

Is there any other country with anything similar?

The purpose of the ensign is to indicate the state of registration of the boat. And yes, other countries have variations as well, but generally not so obvious because the number of UK registered boats probably represents the largest proportion of boats outside the country of registration, so the variations (all permitted) are seen more frequently. The variations reflect the long and complex history of seafaring in the UK.

 

[JomsViking]

Several other European countries have "special" ensigns relating to which club you belong to.

Certainly we see defaced Belgian and Netherlands ensigns here regularly, and I think there are some Danish clubs which have a special ensign.

The ensigns are always very obviously Danish mainly with the letters YF in the upper left corner (Yacht Flag). Different clubs have variations of this, e.g. members of KDY (Royal Danish Yachtclub) have three stars too:
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/dk-yacht.html#rs

 

[GrahamM376]

The variations reflect the long and complex history of seafaring in the UK.

Sadly, many are now flown just for status and I doubt mant of those flying defaced ensigns even know the history. Have met several people who have joined clubs specifically to obtain a warrant and openly admit they never go to the club or participate in its events - "it's just that blue is a nicer colour and has more prestige"!.

One Welsh club was/is offering membership and warrant via the net to anyone who wants to join, wherever they're based.

 

[johnalison]

One Welsh club was/is offering membership and warrant via the net to anyone who wants to join, wherever they're based.

As a traditionalist, albeit one who has never held any kind of warrant, I would like to hope that they are putting their status at risk by doing this.

 

[sighmoon]

The purpose of the ensign is to indicate the state of registration of the boat.

That's exactly why she thought it so funny that the national flag was relegated to a corner.

 

[Leighb]

That's exactly why she thought it so funny that the national flag was relegated to a corner.

Does she realise that the normal British merchant flag also has the Union Jack in one corner?

Perhaps she is one of those furriners who uses a Union Jack as a courtesy flag

 

[sighmoon]

Does she realise that the normal British merchant flag also has the Union Jack in one corner?

Perhaps she is one of those furriners who uses a Union Jack as a courtesy flag

Merchants get the commoner's flag, like what we've got.

If one is a member of a particular yacht club in a foriegn registered boat, can you fly their club ensign?

 

[Tranona]

That's exactly why she thought it so funny that the national flag was relegated to a corner.

So does the red (and white) ensign. Can't see what the problem is.

 

[Tranona]

Merchants get the commoner's flag, like what we've got.

If one is a member of a particular yacht club in a foriegn registered boat, can you fly their club ensign?

No. And it is not a "club" ensign. It is a national ensign and the person who flies it must qualify and the boat must be on the UK register (either Part 1 or 3). Suggest if you friend is interested s/he Googles British ensigns and gets the whole story in all its gory details.

 

[DaveRo]

That's exactly why she thought it so funny that the national flag was relegated to a corner.

It's very practical: two thirds of the flag can unravel and it's still recognisable.

 

[Ludd]

It's very practical: two thirds of the flag can unravel and it's still recognisable.

You been looking at mine?

 

[Bosun Higgs]

A foriegn freind had a good chuckle about the British ensign system where social standing and which club you belong to takes up more space on your flag than which country you're from.

Is there any other country with anything similar?

Is he a friend or a feind? And yes there is such a word.

Sorry, couldnt resist. Childish I know.

Yes there are other countries with similar systems. A lot of them still have the union flag in the quadrant, though I was amused to see a Republic of Ireland defaced blue ensing for the Royal Cork YC. Talk about wanting it both ways.

And if your foreign friend tries to tell you that his compatriots dont sniff out each others social standing he's a liar. Simple as that. No doubt they use other symbols as indeed Brits do off the sea. Accent, way you dress, tie, how you live, which hobbies - we all have a finely honed set of instincts even if we use the result to pour scorn on the whole idea.

And why does country have anything much to do with it? Who cares what country you come from? Do you? Maybe your pal comes from somewhere a bit downmarket - Italy for example. Bound to make him sensitive.

 

[monkfish24]

I don't think social standing really has a part to do with it unless you are that sad.

I'm able to fly a blue ensign, but I don't.

I'm waiting for the day when a snob won't let me raft alongside is 120fter becasue my 26ft isn't good enough, then crack out the blue and give them a shock.

To me it has just happened as I'm in the RNSA, I didn't join for the blue. I joined becasue it would help me get out sailing more.

Just a damned junior rate BTW

 

[Tranona]

Social "standing" has little to do with it. All clubs by definition are "exclusive" because if you are not a member you can't go in. So I can't go in to my local working mans club or snooker club etc (unless invited).

"My" club has a warrant for a defaced ensign and I have a permit for one, but its constitution (from 1852 - relative newcomer!) says the club was formed to provide for the working men of the borough (to differentiate from the existing gentlemens' clubs in the area). All three major local clubs have a warrant.

 

[sighmoon]

And why does country have anything much to do with it? Who cares what country you come from? Do you?

I care very much which country I come from; Britain shaped me. It's also interesting to see where other boats are from - we shared a UK anchorage with one Belgian, two Dutch, and no other British vessels. Interesting, no?

But the reason we fly ensigns is because official folk also care - I'd rather have a British registered vessel than a French one, otherwise I'd need paperwork which in my case I have not got.

I sailed to Russia on a blue ensigned boat. Most common response to it once into the Baltic was "have you come all the way from Australia?". (yes, I know Oz yachts have a red one)

No disrespect to anyone with a blue one; I'd love one myself; it would match my sail covers and wouldn't confuse ships when it flaps over the stern light at night, but the division does seem quintessentially English "You can have a white one if you're a war ship OR a member of the royal yacht squadron (given the number of variations, should those two really have the same flag?), a blue one if you're a naval officer, a defaced bue one if you're HMC&E, HM Coastguard, OR a member of a royal club that's not the RYS, a red one if you're British, but not a Royal club member, and a defaced red one if you're from Australia, the Isle of Man or a British Sea Scout. Let's face it, as a means of identification, it could be clearer.

Looking at the history of it, it's even more bizarre - I've just found out the whole commonwealth used to fly defaced red ensigns instead of national flags.

 

[WindyOut]

I love the red duster. Wouldn't swap it for blue of you paid me.

"I wouldn't want to join any club that would accept someone like me as a member" - Groucho Marx.

WindyOut

 

[Searush]

I was going to say what a load of cobblers this thread is, but I can't be r'sed.

 

[Ariadne]

Ex MN; there is only the 'Red Duster', the rest are flown by wanabe seamen & sailors & and that includes the grey funnel fleet or any poncy YC!