Ensign etiquette

[Seafort]

I try to remember to take my red duster down, just to keep it in good condition, to tell the truth it is a rather faded shade of red now.

Salmon pink is "Right on" so I hear.

I have read that we now use the "Red Ensign" to honour those lost in the "Battle of the Atlantic". I have therefore taken the surrounding etiquette quite seriously, to the point of admonishing a German friend for calling it "A bloody stupid flag". (We're still friends).

If I am wrong I ow him an apology (And will take a lot of "Stick").
If I am right some people here may want to think again.

Dave.

 

[Iota]

Salmon pink is "Right on" so I hear.

I have read that we now use the "Red Ensign" to honour those lost in the "Battle of the Atlantic". I have therefore taken the surrounding etiquette quite seriously, to the point of admonishing a German friend for calling it "A bloody stupid flag". (We're still friends).

If I am wrong I ow him an apology (And will take a lot of "Stick").
If I am right some people here may want to think again.

Dave.

snapshot of ensign colours
http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/trainin...day/ship-s-badges-and-flags/the-white-ensign/

 

[Searush]

Yachts wearing red (or blue/ white) ensigns goes back a lot further than the battle of the Atlantic so I don't see the link. However, many on here in the past have said that "if a Red was good enough for the Merchant navy in 2 WWars, it is good enough for me"

My Red had turned to pink, so when I changed moorings & joined the oldest YC in Wales & I found out I could be permitted to wear a defaced blue I decided to do so. Not cheap, but definitely far far better quality than my old faded Nauticalia printed red.

 

[photodog]

"admonishing a German friend for calling it "A bloody stupid flag". "






You just ADMONISHED him!!!

How many times do we have to go over there and kick there ass before these people learn some manners????

 

[photodog]

I find it amazing that anyone would want to fly anything BUT the Red....

None of those fancy club defaced blue ensigns have any real history......

They are just little novelty flags....invented to give a sense of importance to wealthy playboys showing off their social position.

OTOH the Red talks of the immense seagoing history that this nation has, it talks of the sacrifices made over the centuries by British Sailors during peacetime and war to bring wealth and prosperity to this nation.

It has a immense and rich history that eclipses all other nations.

I am gobsmacked that they let us in our little saily boats and our little toy plastic gin palaces fly this flag. We are not worthy.

 

[Lizzie_B]

I got very rudely told off by the neighboring boat where I berth about leaving my ensign flying overnight, and having seen his boat handling first hand can I suggest that the opposite might be true?

Well, he was wrong then wasn't he.
Unless you're an RN ship in commision there is no requirement for you to take in your ensign at night
Secondly, There is no requirement for a british owned private leisure craft to wear an ensign of any sort within British territorial waters.
There are , however, rules of entitlement to the use of special/priviledged ensigns for those who want to uphold some of the historic traditions associated with them.

 

[laurance]

I know it is a pleasing thought that we once 'ruled the waves' and were therefore actually good at something possibly worth being good at but I am a little uneasy that that notion may partly arise from that slightly cringingly patriotic piece of music.

Spain, Portugal, the Netherlands, our French friends, Germany and others all fielded pretty good seafaring teams too. And I read the USA knocked us off our lofty and possibly self appointed perch without apparently too much trouble in the war of 1812.

That aside, I agree, who can wear a defaced blue with much pride in these liberal, enlightened days. I was greatly disappointed the day I learned the blue did not in fact speak of special competence but, connexions.

 

[BrendanS]

None of those fancy club defaced blue ensigns have any real history......

They are just little novelty flags....invented to give a sense of importance to wealthy playboys showing off their social position.

OTOH the Red talks of the immense seagoing history that this nation has, it talks of the sacrifices made over the centuries by British Sailors during peacetime and war to bring wealth and prosperity to this nation.

It has a immense and rich history that eclipses all other nations.

I am gobsmacked that they let us in our little saily boats and our little toy plastic gin palaces fly this flag. We are not worthy.

The history of the blue is as long and complex as the red, back to it's use in the red, white and blue naval squadrons. It was only in1864 that the usage changed

 

[Lizzie_B]

I find it amazing that anyone would want to fly anything BUT the Red....

None of those fancy club defaced blue ensigns have any real history......

They are just little novelty flags....invented to give a sense of importance to wealthy playboys showing off their social position.

OTOH the Red talks of the immense seagoing history that this nation has, it talks of the sacrifices made over the centuries by British Sailors during peacetime and war to bring wealth and prosperity to this nation.

It has a immense and rich history that eclipses all other nations.

I am gobsmacked that they let us in our little saily boats and our little toy plastic gin palaces fly this flag. We are not worthy.

'damnant quodnon intelligunt'

 

[Woodlouse]

I wouldn't say the Americans knocked us off our perch in 1812. They won a few very one sided frigate duels before their navy spent the rest of the war running away and hiding. The only action in the war of 1812 between ships of comparable size and armament ended with a British victory within 15 minutes of the first shot.

The perch of british sea power was by no means self appointed either. The Netherlands was a spent force by the days of Nelson, and Trafalgar saw the Royal Navy defeat both the Spanish and French navies in one go.


Anyway, I've always been told that a plain red ensign has more prestige than a defaced blue, which contrary to what the club says, means nothing.

As for a plain blue ensign, well, I look forward with glee to the day I get to hoist mine. Purely because it seems to piss so many people off.

All the fuss is just so many chips on shoulders in my opinion.

 

[photodog]

"'damnant quodnon intelligunt' "


To this I can only really say that the whole thing is de asini umbra disceptare...


smileyicon

 

[Lizzie_B]

I know it is a pleasing thought that we once 'ruled the waves' and were therefore actually good at something possibly worth being good at but I am a little uneasy that that notion may partly arise from that slightly cringingly patriotic piece of music.

Spain, Portugal, the Netherlands, our French friends, Germany and others all fielded pretty good seafaring teams too. And I read the USA knocked us off our lofty and possibly self appointed perch without apparently too much trouble in the war of 1812.

That aside, I agree, who can wear a defaced blue with much pride in these liberal, enlightened days. I was greatly disappointed the day I learned the blue did not in fact speak of special competence but, connexions.

In what way did the war of 1812 'knock us of our perch' self appointed or other wise?

Any way, it's about our traditions and history. Other countries have theirs and justly (or unjustly) are usually far more vociferous and less apologetic about celebrating them as we as a nation tend to be.

And the fact does remain, that while many of the nations you mention-- and I could add many more--- have periods of great maritime achievement in their histories -- none come close to the dominance of position held for so long as was achieved by the British.


Whether that is something to be proud of or not is a whole other debate.
At least with have enough tradition and history of our own, that we don't have to go around inventing it like some younger nations.

Many of our special ensigns actually do have proud history's behind them and not all are about wealth and connexions... and any way there are some pretty snobby red ensign clubs about as well. I don't see why some people find it necessary to be so resentful of special ensigns. There are prats using every type of ensign. It's ridiculous to make pre conceived assumptions about what a person is like either in character or boat handling skills on the basis of the ensign hanging off the back of his boat.

 

[photodog]

"And I read the USA knocked us off our lofty and possibly self appointed perch without apparently too much trouble in the war of 1812."


Did they do that before or after we burnt Washington?

 

[Lizzie_B]

"'damnant quodnon intelligunt' "


To this I can only really say that the whole thing is de asini umbra disceptare...


smileyicon

Bien dit mon petit chien

 

[laurance]

As for a plain blue ensign, well, I look forward with glee to the day I get to hoist mine. Purely because it seems to piss so many people off.[/QUOTE]

Quite, a far better reason than to do so to promote the idea that one is special. I should no doubt like to wear one on the same basis but can I trust myself to insinuate myself into such a club for more practical or honorable reasons than wishing to flying their special flag?

I am happy to concede the Brits may have a right to some feelings of pride at our seafaring heritage but to me wearing an ensign is more of an enhancement to the appearance of a vessel, an act of harmless tradition or legal requirement rather than an opportunity to announce ones nationality. Unless one is wearing the flag of Cornwall, Scotland or Wales, in which instance, fair play.

 

[Litotes]

None of those fancy club defaced blue ensigns have any real history......

Oh dear. You really don't know the reasons why some clubs were granted the right to issue these warrants, do you? There is, indeed, a proud history there. If you know the reasons, you might realise that there is no less reason to be "proud" of them than there is of the red. After all, you weren't the one freezing on the Murmansk convoys, were you?

 

[jonjo]

I say to those with their contrieved ignorance of ensign etiquette, you better get it right before heading into French waters otherwise you might be relieved of some wine tokens.

Anyhow this discussion is an excellent synopsis of the state of Britain, we take a basic requirement of international maritime law, mix in some nostalgia for empire and then turn it into class warfare.

 

[Slow_boat]

And I read the USA knocked us off our lofty and possibly self appointed perch without apparently too much trouble in the war of 1812.

And I heard that the Yanks captured the Enigma machine on their own, won the war in Burma, invented motor cars, the internet and penicillin, stood alone against the slave trade and rescued the whole of Europe from oppression. Twice. (Not that they were waiting to see how things were likely to pan out, of course)

BTW, I saw a boat in the Crouch last week with a red ensign on the stern, I think it was a union flag on the flag mast and a strange swirly red white and blue flag I keep thinking I should recognise (Panama?) on the bow.

 

[Litotes]

It's ridiculous to make pre conceived assumptions about what a person is like either in character or boat handling skills on the basis of the ensign hanging off the back of his boat.

Well said.

If I encountered in real life the ignorance, inverted snobbery, silliness and sheer pettiness that this particular topic invokes in cyber life, I would be very depressed. Happily, I don't.

 

[Litotes]

"And I read the USA knocked us off our lofty and possibly self appointed perch without apparently too much trouble in the war of 1812."

I always think it very odd that the Americans claim that war as a victory. The real intention was to take advantage of British preoccupation with the war against Napoleon in order to occupy Canada, which, as we can see, didn't happen. The treaty that ended the war was an agreement to return to the situation that prevailed before it had been declared, which, since none of the war aims were achieved, is hardly a glorious victory.

Even many American historians now agree that the ostensible reason for declaring war - the impressment of American citizens, was not exactly as it has been depicted, since those impressed were, for the most part, deserters from the British navy.