ENOUGH FENDERS????

[Hurricane]

View attachment 97210

I nearly posted that image but that the one that shows Phase 2 complete and Phase 2 was never started.
Just thought it might confuse people.

 

[Hurricane]

Just for completeness sake, here's a link to the Virtual Tour that I did with the drone.
Note you can Pan/Tilt and Zoom - also click on the little yellow icons to get information and other views.
Some people might find it interesting

SCMCHAT 3D Virtual Tour

 

[John100156]

Yes I liked Y403 too, but with my and Tim's flybridges about the same height, we could probably share drinks - albeit I believe he berths alongside bow and port to.

We can put up with the 'other' noisy neighbours, you know the rowdy lot on the 20m berths

I will take a look when next out - I am going to check the virtual tour later to see whom might be alongside Y423....!

Also had responses from other friends in the marina with some excellent suggestions....

 

[John100156]

Well here you can see my boat and a shot of pontoons Z and Y:

 

[Nauti Fox]

 

[TwoHooter]

I sympathise.

Our boat has been hit 3 times while we were moored as instructed by the harbourmaster. I have written about this before.

First time was Waterford, Ireland. Hit by a yacht run by the Swiss Sailing School. Minor damage. I've since seen another example of their boat handling, in the Beaulieu River. If you see one of their yachts coming, get out on deck with a roving fender.

Second time was Portishead. Yacht undergoing post-refit trials in the marina, got blown on to us. Significant gelcoat damage. The yacht owner preferred to settle up direct, which he did like a gentleman.

The third time was horrible for reasons which I will explain. The following video has had the sound edited to remove my remarks about the offending skipper's yachtsmanship, intelligence, and parentage.

The first reason this was horrible was that it curtailed our summer cruise of the Channel Islands. The damage was worse than it first appeared and we didn't feel safe using the swim platform. The second reason was that our insurance providers made the claim an absolute nightmare. In the end I won the battle with our underwriters and the repair was done very well to a correct standard. The third reason this was horible is that despite the skipper of the catamaran saying 'If I cause damage I pay' he refused to settle our private claim for uninsured losses. In the end I had to use our legal costs insurance cover and fortunately the luck of the draw gave me a highly competent barrister who eventually did recover that part of our claim. But the whole experience was the complete opposite of fun and made us question our involvement in boating.

In the 6 years we have been boating I have seen 3 other incidents where one boat has struck another (in one case several other) boats in a marina. On our Owners Group there was a report a few months ago by the owner of a large multi-million pound vessel who had been scraped all the way down one side by a large tender which broke free from a superyacht at anchor. His insurers refused to pay the cost of anything other than superficial dressing of the gouges in the gelcoat and he had to pay out of his own pocket for a proper repair job and then sue the superyacht owners who (as one would expect) were hiding behind offshore shell companies. He found the whole experience so painful that he and his wife agreed they would give up boating, and indeed they have sold their boat.

So this is not unusual and as I began by saying, I sympathise. And we smother our boat in fenders.

 

[Elessar]

Oooooooooooooo - Z403 - thats a bit close for comfort!!

Actually, IMO, Z403 would be much nicer than Y423.
The marina doesn't suffer from swell but Z403 is well away from anything coming in from the sea.

Z403 is Jez’s old berth I think. The following only applies if I’m right! I used his 56 ft feretti quite a few times.

It’s actually a very tricky berth.
The prevailing afternoon wind blows you off the finger and up towards the main walkway.
So beam onto the wind you drift sideways and go astern quickly into the berth.
The upwind boat was only a 40 footer so going against it with fenders in a 50 odd footer wasn’t ideal.
If you miss the berth the upwind walkway has rocks and so not enough room to lie against it as a plan B.
There is also not enough room to turn into the wind to motor out and have another go.
I always found myself finding another berth and moving in the morning with no onshore breeze.
I would not personally like that berth.

 

[John100156]

Y403 is next to Tim, I know Jez was on the outside of Y, and then over on Z and then moved along Z where the boat is now.

I am use to the winds, you may recall my old F43 (you looked at my Bow Thruster to get an idea where to fit one on your Sealine), it was almost at the very end of L pontoon and that was only a 12m berth, I almost had to touch the rope before I turned and backed-in! We had a decent BT and ST so never touched the fenders of my neighbours boat! If the wind is strong I just turned early and let it do the work, then backed in and thrusted with SWMBO often shouting 'Over to Port, we're all going to die'.....

I really don't mind boats laying gently on my fenders, as long as they have taken reasonable steps to prepare sometimes it is unavoidable, a few weeks ago yet another visitor did the same thing, someone pulling on their stern line causing their Pt bow to swing wildly into my Stb bow, then one of the crew wanted to push off my strake strip with a boat hook, until I growled at him and dropped in a roaming fender, we always have at least one at the ready when visiting a strange berth.

I really feel for TwoHooter above......!

 

[John100156]

View attachment 97245

OK THAT ONE DEFINITELY BEATS MY FEEBLE ATTEMPT AT SAFE FENDERING....!

 

[Hurricane]

Z403 is Jez’s old berth I think. The following only applies if I’m right! I used his 56 ft feretti quite a few times.

It’s actually a very tricky berth.
The prevailing afternoon wind blows you off the finger and up towards the main walkway.
So beam onto the wind you drift sideways and go astern quickly into the berth.
The upwind boat was only a 40 footer so going against it with fenders in a 50 odd footer wasn’t ideal.
If you miss the berth the upwind walkway has rocks and so not enough room to lie against it as a plan B.
There is also not enough room to turn into the wind to motor out and have another go.
I always found myself finding another berth and moving in the morning with no onshore breeze.
I would not personally like that berth.

I think you have actually put Jez's boat in both Y403 and Z403 berths.
Y403
I agree with the rocks.
But on the plus side, Gentlemanracer has a big RIB in Z401 at the moment so touching it lightly wouldn't hurt either boat - fenders in between if posible of course.

Both of those Y403 and Z403, and, indeed, Y423 aren't regarded as the best from a wind point of view.
Actually, the strong winds come from the north so it is better to be blown off rather than your fenders squashing in the strong winds.
The 20m berths are probably the best because they bow into the strong winds and are blown off in the afternoon sea breezes.

John, your current berth is blown off in the strong winds so it might be worth considering staying where you are and working some scheme for that visitor berth next to you.
Maybe "MORE FENDERS".

 

[John100156]

I think you have actually put Jez's boat in both Y403 and Z403 berths.
Y403
I agree with the rocks.
But on the plus side, Gentlemanracer has a big RIB in Z401 at the moment so touching it lightly wouldn't hurt either boat - fenders in between if posible of course.

Both of those Y403 and Z403, and, indeed, Y423 aren't regarded as the best from a wind point of view.
Actually, the strong winds come from the north so it is better to be blown off rather than your fenders squashing in the strong winds.
The 20m berths are probably the best because they bow into the strong winds and are blown off in the afternoon sea breezes.

John, your current berth is blown off in the strong winds so it might be worth considering staying where you are and working some scheme for that visitor berth next to you.
Maybe "MORE FENDERS".

I know what you mean, we would be happy to stay even with the rocking as few obey the speed limit when entering. They often approach at speed, 10-15k sometimes, and then slow as they turn the corner which sends a bow wave straight for us at the end of Z. I could live with that, it’s just the buggeration sorting repairs each time we’re hit as I just don’t have the time!

I reckon a toy, a long 14m banana boat alongside is needed ?

 

[Rocksteadee]

Could try a yachties technique of putting a plank over the top of fenders, this would spread the load and prevent individual fenders getting knocked out of the way

 

[John100156]

I do quite like that suggestion...... thanks

 

[RupertW]

I sympathise.

Our boat has been hit 3 times while we were moored as instructed by the harbourmaster. I have written about this before.

First time was Waterford, Ireland. Hit by a yacht run by the Swiss Sailing School. Minor damage. I've since seen another example of their boat handling, in the Beaulieu River. If you see one of their yachts coming, get out on deck with a roving fender.

Second time was Portishead. Yacht undergoing post-refit trials in the marina, got blown on to us. Significant gelcoat damage. The yacht owner preferred to settle up direct, which he did like a gentleman.

The third time was horrible for reasons which I will explain. The following video has had the sound edited to remove my remarks about the offending skipper's yachtsmanship, intelligence, and parentage.

The first reason this was horrible was that it curtailed our summer cruise of the Channel Islands. The damage was worse than it first appeared and we didn't feel safe using the swim platform. The second reason was that our insurance providers made the claim an absolute nightmare. In the end I won the battle with our underwriters and the repair was done very well to a correct standard. The third reason this was horible is that despite the skipper of the catamaran saying 'If I cause damage I pay' he refused to settle our private claim for uninsured losses. In the end I had to use our legal costs insurance cover and fortunately the luck of the draw gave me a highly competent barrister who eventually did recover that part of our claim. But the whole experience was the complete opposite of fun and made us question our involvement in boating.

In the 6 years we have been boating I have seen 3 other incidents where one boat has struck another (in one case several other) boats in a marina. On our Owners Group there was a report a few months ago by the owner of a large multi-million pound vessel who had been scraped all the way down one side by a large tender which broke free from a superyacht at anchor. His insurers refused to pay the cost of anything other than superficial dressing of the gouges in the gelcoat and he had to pay out of his own pocket for a proper repair job and then sue the superyacht owners who (as one would expect) were hiding behind offshore shell companies. He found the whole experience so painful that he and his wife agreed they would give up boating, and indeed they have sold their boat.

So this is not unusual and as I began by saying, I sympathise. And we smother our boat in fenders.

Clearly the other guys fault but why would you just film and grumble instead of shouting clearly to them to fend whilst getting a fender down yourself? There was quite a lot of time between starting to film him coming closer and the unfendered impact.

 

[John100156]

Because I was in the UK and the boat was in Spain and my mouth is not that big....

 

[TwoHooter]

Clearly the other guys fault but why would you just film and grumble instead of shouting clearly to them to fend whilst getting a fender down yourself? There was quite a lot of time between starting to film him coming closer and the unfendered impact.

Well that's an interesting point of view. Here's why you are completely and utterly wrong.

It was early morning and we were still in pyjamas and night dress, with bare feet. My wife was in the galley when she looked out of the stern windows and saw the incident start to unfold and called me. I was in the heads. We quickly agreed it was unsafe to go on to the swim platform in that clothing and without lifejackets, and we had no time to put them on and untie a fender. I don't think a fender would have done any good, not even one of our big Polyform HTM4s. The offending vessel was very big and very heavy and I think it would have driven under the swim platform even if there was a fender in exactly the right place. It wasn't like a normal impact where a fender buffers the two hulls, what happened was that his port sponson dipped under our swim platform and then lifted up in the swell. Our boat weighs 27 tonnes and that's why the platform broke. Even if one of us had been able to get a fender, and go onto the swim platform in bare feet and hold it in the right place I think the sponson would still have lifted and broken the platform. You can see how the platform splintered. What you are suggesting is that one of us, in our seventies, should have put ourselves right in the firing line of a very big and heavy object with the risk of a crush injury, getting splintered teak in a foot, or worse still falling into cold water without a buoyancy aid. My wife and I love our boat but we don't fancy injuring ourselves to protect it. We did shout, very loudly, both before I started filming and during the filming, but neither the deckhand (who was completely useless) or the skipper far away on the helm heard us. I edited the film to remove most of the shouting because I was very intemperate in my language and was describing the antecedents and personal characteristics of the skipper of the cat in words which Youtube would not have liked. If one of us had managed to untie a fender, and had gone onto the swim platform, the other would have had to hold on to them for safety, which would have meant neither of us could have filmed the incident to support first our insurance claim and second our claim against the other vessel for uninsured losses.

I think we took exactly the right actions. We kept ourselves safe and we gained evidence to support our claims. I wouldn't do any different with the benefit of hindsight.

I was already fed up with other people hitting our boat and now I'm fed up with people sitting in comfort at a keyboard and telling me what I should have done in a stressful situation.

 

[RupertW]

Well that's an interesting point of view. Here's why you are completely and utterly wrong.

It was early morning and we were still in pyjamas and night dress, with bare feet. My wife was in the galley when she looked out of the stern windows and saw the incident start to unfold and called me. I was in the heads. We quickly agreed it was unsafe to go on to the swim platform in that clothing and without lifejackets, and we had no time to put them on and untie a fender. I don't think a fender would have done any good, not even one of our big Polyform HTM4s. The offending vessel was very big and very heavy and I think it would have driven under the swim platform even if there was a fender in exactly the right place. It wasn't like a normal impact where a fender buffers the two hulls, what happened was that his port sponson dipped under our swim platform and then lifted up in the swell. Our boat weighs 27 tonnes and that's why the platform broke. Even if one of us had been able to get a fender, and go onto the swim platform in bare feet and hold it in the right place I think the sponson would still have lifted and broken the platform. You can see how the platform splintered. What you are suggesting is that one of us, in our seventies, should have put ourselves right in the firing line of a very big and heavy object with the risk of a crush injury, getting splintered teak in a foot, or worse still falling into cold water without a buoyancy aid. My wife and I love our boat but we don't fancy injuring ourselves to protect it. We did shout, very loudly, both before I started filming and during the filming, but neither the deckhand (who was completely useless) or the skipper far away on the helm heard us. I edited the film to remove most of the shouting because I was very intemperate in my language and was describing the antecedents and personal characteristics of the skipper of the cat in words which Youtube would not have liked. If one of us had managed to untie a fender, and had gone onto the swim platform, the other would have had to hold on to them for safety, which would have meant neither of us could have filmed the incident to support first our insurance claim and second our claim against the other vessel for uninsured losses.

I think we took exactly the right actions. We kept ourselves safe and we gained evidence to support our claims. I wouldn't do any different with the benefit of hindsight.

I was already fed up with other people hitting our boat and now I'm fed up with people sitting in comfort at a keyboard and telling me what I should have done in a stressful situation.

Still makes little sense to me - firstly why you don’t have a roving fender ready at all times for this sort of thing and secondly that you worry about what if any clothes to wear to protect your boat. Keep filming instead of protecting your boat if your prefer, but I’d rather avoid the damage if at all possible.

 

[John100156]

You can repair boats - injuries at that age take longer. The boat got damaged, likely repaired and no one injured except the pocket of the plonker that hit him. Whilst I am a great believer in roaming fenders and not boat hooks, I think I might have done precisely the same thing and I am a youngster, at 64....!