English, as she is spoke.

[alanporter]

I have been following these forums (? fora, that doesn't sound right), for a few years now, and have derived great enjoyment and some knowledge from them. However, my question is, does anyone have an English-Canadian dictionary ? My best wishes to all members.

<hr width=100% size=1>Alan Porter

 

[Robin]

Since SWMBO is American she suffers a similar difficulty with the English language, though after 17 years she has no problem with the literal translation word by word, only the subleties of meaning which still lead to some 'misunderstandings'. Subtle for example is probably not in the USA (not sure about Canadian) dictionary and this is apparent especially in comedy where subtlety is replaced by slapstick and canned laughter. In drama too we prefer the thought provoking or mentally stumulating rather than just another massive muscled Rambo in disguise with guns blazing

There are also particular problems that arise because Brits poke fun at those we really like (a sign of a really close friend) and are very polite to those we care less about. This still causes a reduction in nookie points I have found, especially in relation to SWMO's golf, though that may be a peculiarity of the game rather than her branch of the species of homo sapiens.

As I am in severe danger of losing nookie points long term I think I will quit whilst I am ahead or at least still in one piece.

Have a great season, we look like having a good weekend on the water here and it is POETS Day (p..s off early tommorrow's Saturday) today as well as being St Georges Day. St George is the patron Saint of England (note not Wales, Scotland or even Britain or UK, but ENGLAND). Confused?????



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[ubuysa]

Ok, I'll risk this.......

An American student wins a scholarship to Cambridge University (Cambridge, England that is...). Never having been to England before, and only having a letter telling him to "be in the library for a 2:30pm induction meeting", our student is a little lost. He decides he'll have to ask someone for help and spots a white haired old gentleman walking toward him. "Hey man, can you tell me where the library's at?" our student drawls.

The old gentleman turns out to be a Professor of English and answers "Young man, in the English language the word 'at' is a preposition, and nobody who speaks the language correctly ever ends a sentence with a prepostition. Please rephrase the question."

Our student thinks for a few moments and then says "Hey man, can you tell me where the library's at a$$hole!" /forums/images/icons/shocked.gif

Sorry couldn't resist.....Tony C.

<hr width=100% size=1>There are 10 kinds of people, those who understand binary and those who don't.

 

[Sybarite]

Appropriate to be talking of English today, anniversary of Shakespeare's death - on his 52nd birthday.

To say nothing of mine...


John

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[Sybarite]

Is it because enough people say a thing the wrong way that it becomes right ? Maybe that's how language evolves. However I will then fight a rearguard action to defend the use of the language.

Another thing that I object to is the use of emoticons, smileys and brackets to express how a certain phrase should be taken. It seems to me that we use these rather than trying to find the necessary words, thus leading to an impoverishment of the language. Could one imagine for example Oscar Wilde using a smiley to show that what he was saying was witty?

It all comes from a dumming down in the mediums - media doesn't sound quite right does it ? ;-)

John

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[Twister_Ken]

A pedant writes:

It all comes from a dumming down in the mediums

Dumbing down, surely?

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.writeforweb.com/twister1>Let's Twist Again</A>

 

[whisper]

Re: A pedant writes:

Tee Hee /forums/images/icons/smile.gif/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif - with apologies to O.Wilde.

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[robp]

Good points. Also we, (English), don't always say what we mean and expect our fellows to "understand". This invariably leads to confusion with Americans, who generally say just what they mean. Question is, are Canadians more similar to Americans or Brits - Alan?

I used to work with Japanese. One of whom told me that they can't say anything direct but (and he used his hand to make a corkscrew course) "communicate like this". In this respect, Brits (or maybe just English) are closer to Japanese culture.

For sometime I've wondered if American as a language should be floated separately. Many grammatical anomalies now affect English and are being adopted by our kids. One example; "more than" becomes "more then". We'd probably then plummet to about number 20 in the world stakes! Alan, where would you stand?

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[Evadne]

Ah yes, the British and Americans, two people divided by a common language.

From a friend who went on a course in Chicago a while ago:
Don't suggest that you'll "drive by" sometime, unless you're name's Bonnie or Clyde.
You have a cigarette break, you don't go outside to smoke a fag.


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[Beagle]

A sub-reason for visiting this forum is trying to improve language skills, at least for some foreigners like myself. Bad teachers create bad students. On the other had, I have never met (world wide) an experienced sailor with perfect language skills or phrasing dirived from schoolbooks. Main object of language is to understand each other, right? Correct spelling and grammar help, but I will never master that.....

Rene

<hr width=100% size=1>Never under estimate the strength of human stupidity

 

[MainlySteam]

Don't be too stuffy /forums/images/icons/wink.gif.

I think that you are way off the track claiming people like Oscar Wilde would not use smilies, etc. In fact Oscar Wilde and all playwrights use comparable tools very heavily though the medium of their actor's expressions, gestures, etc. In theatre the smiles, frowns, gestures, what have you are in fact greatly exaggerated for both the reasons of bridging the gap out to the audience (a parallel with the impersonality of forums?) and for effect.

Similarly in literature, for example 'Demnition discount,' returned Mr. Mantalini, with a grin, and shaking his head waggishly. (Dickens). The writer in those circumstances has opportunities to add comment (using the strong adjectives grin, shaking, waggishly) to build the picture of the subject's countenance (in the case of that quote) which do not exist so easily in posts in a medium such as this.

Theatre and literature use different tools to get emotion, countenance, etc across and in both overuse of those tools is bad. So what is wrong with limited use smilies, etc in the otherwise very impersonal medium of a forum. For a real example:

"I will not involve opera in this discussion as I would be very much afraid that I would be cornered by you John, as you are sure to have much more experience on (or by?) your side /forums/images/icons/blush.gif."

Regarding American drama, do many know that Neil Simon (American) is the second most performed playwright in the English speaking world after Shakespeare /forums/images/icons/smile.gif?

Feel a lot better getting that off my chest /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif.

Another John

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[Beagle]

Re: faqs/fags

I remember a red-headed Englsih standup comedian (sort of) saying at a big US Oscar nomanies pary: 'It's hard not to smoke here with all these fags'. While I rolled of the coach from laughter, I could see this big question marks floating around due to misunderstanding. English humour is weid, wicked and funny at the same time.

<hr width=100% size=1>Never under estimate the strength of human stupidity

 

[Mirelle]

The comparison with Japanese is a good one. Whilst in Britain we do not have separate languages for men and women (an occasional source of hilarity in Japan, when a gaijin reveals that he has learned his Japanese from a "pillow dictionary" there are quite a number of cultural similarities. The Chinese languages differ (some compare Cantonese to New York American) but in general are more direct.

The English and the Japanese share a tendency to become glacially polite as an expression of detestation.

I remember recently explaining to a roomful of Chinese colleagues that the deadliest insult they could offer to a lady lawyer was to address her as "My dear good woman"!

<hr width=100% size=1>Que scais-je?

 

[DeeGee]

Couldn't agree more - the 'extras' brought beyond the actual words find a strong exemplar in the Big'Yin. He, apparently, goes down well in most English-speaking countries, including the US and Australia. It clearly cannot be simply what he says, so much as how he says it.

<hr width=100% size=1>Black Sugar - the sweetest of all

 

[Robin]

Re: faqs/fags

One certainly would not want to confess to smoking 20 fags a day in front of the local lawman...

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[BlueSkyNick]

John, As all the others are so engrossed in the futility of the English language, I will pick up on your point ........

Happy Birthday to You
Happy Birthday to You
Happy Birthday dear Sybarite
Happy Birthday to YOU!

There! Feel better now?

<hr width=100% size=1>I'm average size, Its just that everybody else is short.

 

[Sybarite]

Re: A pedant writes:

Hoisted on me own what's its...

The point is, even as an Irishman, I love the English language!

John

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[Kristal]

Context in Text

But in a language where wit, sarcasm and innuendo all find their way regularly into conversation (or at least, the latter does in mine, missus,) I find it quite difficult to know how to take some things that are written.

An ex-girlfriend of mine used to exchange email written in different colours to express the sentiment - i.e. red for sarcasm, brown for nonsense etc. It came from a misunderstanding in an email sentence - and she's got a masters in English!!

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.crystaltwo.co.uk/>Crystal II in Pictures</A>

 

[peterb]

Irish

As an Irishman, I'm sure you'll relish a phrase I heard on Thursday. Wednesday had been cold, wet and windy; Thursday was warm, dry, blue-skied and just a gentle breeze. One of our crew emerged, looked round and said: "You wouldn't think it was the same day as yesterday, would you?" And we all knew what he meant!

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[Sybarite]

Re: Irish

Love it ...


John

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