Engine wont start - MD22L

Richard10002

Richard10002

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Given my health issues, engine hasnt been started since last April!

Anyway, turned on batteries, turned key, and just got a very fast "ticking/rattling" sound... I know little about engines, but it sounded like something was turning fast but not engaging to give the grunting rattle before she usually starts within a second or two.

Could it be the starter motor turning but not engaging? What else could it be? What should I do?

Cheers for now

Richard
 
Sounds like your starter motor sprocket has rusted up on the worm drive. Take the motor off ( turn off batteries and disconnect it first) There are only 2 bolts and it should withdraw easily. Take the sprocket apart (obvious and easy but don't lose the spring) Clean it up thoroughly but DONT grease it. Put it back and it should work.
 
Hi Nick,

Thanks for the quick response!

I came for 12 days in December, but just sat on the boat unable to contemplate anything serious, (like starting the engine /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif )

Starter battery voltage is 12.96V same as the 2 domestic batteries.

ISTR with the cars I owned as a student that not starting was usually something electrical... could be a corroded or loose connection I guess.. anyway - back to the experts /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

May not reply for a while as I'm off to do a bit of shopping - food and boaty stuff.

Cheers for now

Richard
 
It could be a number of things Richard, but was just wondering if the battery was on the low side - which it clearly is not (I am assuming you've turned the charger off to take that reading!). This can cause the starter to fail to engage properly making the sounds you have indicated.
 
[ QUOTE ]
It could be a number of things Richard, but was just wondering if the battery was on the low side - which it clearly is not (I am assuming you've turned the charger off to take that reading!). This can cause the starter to fail to engage properly making the sounds you have indicated.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hadnt turned the charger off!! without the charger running it's 12.3 volts. The two domestic batteries read 13.12 volts.

If that's low enough to stop the starter engaging, could I connect to one of the domestic batteries to see what happens.

boatmikes suggestion makes sense, but if it's as simple, (and expensive!!), as a new battery, that'll be an easier fix than taking apart the starter, (for me).

Off to the gas shop now

Thanks again

Richard
 
I thought not when you said the domestic batteries were the same !!

see if it improves after it has had a chance to charge up a bit - a couple of hours.

Otherwise, its back to boatmike's suggestion. If he is right, buying a new battery won't fix it !! If you can't manage it, might be a case of getting a local grease monkey to take a look, for a small palm of silver.

Edit: I wouldnt jump start off the domestic batteries except in emergencies. While you are tied up and connected to electrickery there are better ways.
 
If it dropped to 12.3 as soon as the charger went off then it is a dead battery and is probably showing that voltage from 5 cells not 6 with a dead one doing nothing, it won't have enough grunt in amps to throw the starter into mesh. I'm surprised you don't have a means of joining a domestic battery in to start as many boats would have that mod added. You could try a pair of car jump leads to see for sure before buying a new battery, but beware of simply swapping the domestic battery over temporarily and therefore leaving no battery on the alternator charge circuit or you could blow a diode in the alternator.
 
First things first,

Get that starter battery fizzing with power - 13v or so after charging for a number of hours.

Then if the same thing happens - poor starter response you will need to look further. Something's turning so I doubt it's jammed or rusty, but it does need a full battery to do its work! I'm betting there's not enough real power to get that starter engaged!

Good luck.

PWG
 
[ QUOTE ]
Get that starter battery fizzing with power - 13v or so after charging for a number of hours.

[/ QUOTE ]

The batteries are on charge permanently when the boat is on shore power, so they have all been charging for the best part of 15 months!! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Just had a look and the engine battery is now 12.1V having been on charge since I went out, about 3 hours ago... looks like a duff battery.
 
Hi
I think Robin has it spot on sound like a poor battery to me showing 12 volts don't mean the battery is good its the amps you need, its the same as your car its a its a battery and am engine.
good luck
paul
 
[ QUOTE ]
I'm surprised you don't have a means of joining a domestic battery in to start as many boats would have that mod added. You could try a pair of car jump leads to see for sure before buying a new battery, but beware of simply swapping the domestic battery over temporarily and therefore leaving no battery on the alternator charge circuit or you could blow a diode in the alternator.

[/ QUOTE ]

As mentioned above, the engine battery, after 3 or 4 hours charge, is now showing 12.1V.

I have been dead against "1 - 2 - both" battery selectors, but right now I wish I had one. Not that I am going anywhere immediately.

Which battery is on the alternator charge circuit - engine, or domestic? e.g. if I move the wires which are currently on the engine battery to the domestic bank, (2 batteries), surely the engine and alternator know no different? or do they?

If the above isnt sensible, I'll get some jump leads tomorrow and see if she starts.

I've got one of those Halfords starter jobbies - I think it's got a 20Ah battery inside, and I've used it to start my car in the past.. would that have enough grunt? I'd have to charge it overnight first.

Thanks for the advice

Richard
 
Richard, both sets of batteries are charged from the alternator. You can easily jump start from the domestics to the engine battery, its just that the domestics may not be dual purpose. If you give them too much of a wack in starting the engine, you wont do them any good. That's why I said only in emergencies. If they are dual purpose, then it shoudl be fine.

But it won't prove anything more than your engine battery is cream-crackered!

If your boat is the same as ours, you will have a Newmar charger, which is dumb and not designed to be left on for 15months !
 
I don't like 1-2-both-off switches either. Maybe you have a split charge diode to charge both engine and domestics simultaneuosly and as long as one battery is connected the alternator is safe. However I wouldn't waste time because for sure that battery is a dead one, probably one or more cells have gone. Yes you could try the Halford starter thing or jump leads but in the end you need a new battery!

A fully charged 12v battery rested several hours after charging should read about 12.7/12.8v. Yours showed 12.3v with it just off charge and later just 12.1v which is 'flat' but most probably instead of 6 cells producing 2.1/2.2v each you have 5 which have gamely tried but failed to match the charger's float voltage of 13.6, initially you see some volts but there aren't enough amps, it's all show and no go!
 
Richard -start with the basics. clean up and then retighten the connections from battery to the starter plus ground etc.

Its very easy to overlook the bleeding obvious. This is said from experience having spent a couple of hours lugging loan batteries down from the yard to Hanser's mooring. Complete waste of time. The problem was a bit of corrosion around battery terminals and the glow plug relay. Symptoms were exactly as yours -good luck
 
[ QUOTE ]
Richard, both sets of batteries are charged from the alternator. You can easily jump start from the domestics to the engine battery, its just that the domestics may not be dual purpose. If you give them too much of a wack in starting the engine, you wont do them any good. That's why I said only in emergencies. If they are dual purpose, then it shoudl be fine.

But it won't prove anything more than your engine battery is cream-crackered!

If your boat is the same as ours, you will have a Newmar charger, which is dumb and not designed to be left on for 15months !

[/ QUOTE ]


Engine battery and domestic batteries are exactly the same, so very interchangeable, so a jump start should not cause a problem. I think I need to prove (if only to myself), that the battery is the sole cause. If it starts off the others, then I need look no further. I'm going to wait till morning and try the Halfords gizmo for a jump start... then I'll get some jump leads which I think I should have onboard anyway. We're assuming it will start from a fully charged battery, and a new one will solve the problem - here's hoping.

I do have a Newmar charger, but I am sure it modifies the charge as the batteries fill up.... that's what the sterling battery monitor seems to show anyway - I'm also sure I read the same in the Newmar manual, (flimsy paper thing), but it was over a year ago so I could be wrong. I'll see if I can dig it out and see what it says.

I cant leave the boat not charging as stuff that remains on seems to use about 0.5A, (I think it's the Navtex which doesnt have an off switch). Also I cant take a chance that the batteries go flat as they run the auto bilge pump. I'm saying "cant", but I'm open to suggestions - perhaps in a different thread.

Thanks again!!

Richard
 
slight drift - there is a switch for the Navtex on the left hand side behind the switch panel, ditto VHF and a couple of other things I can't remember!

My Newmar charger is very basic design, it will reduce the charging current down to about 0.1A as it approaches 14.0 volts. There is no 'smart' circuitry to manage the charge cycle in stages.
 
Richard
having read all the posts, here is my two pennorth, if your battery is shagged you will get a rattle from the solenoid piston on your starter, what happens is that there is enough juice to throw the solenoid piston over, which shoves the starter pinion in to mesh, it trys to turn the engine, all the juice is used, there then is not enough to hold the solenoid piston in position and it springs back. There is then enough juice to shove the piston over again and the cycle repeats itself. This all happens very quickly so it sounds like a rattle. It can be caused by a bad connection as well.
You could also have a slightly rusted, from lack of use, pinion, but, highly unlikely,
Try the jump leads, in this scenario, I wouldnt worry too much about suitability of batteries for starting.
Stu
 
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