Engine won't start - burnt out starter motor?

demonboy

demonboy

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At anchor off the small island of Ko Lipe with nothing but Internet connection, some spanners and Calder's Bible.

Had a water hose leak on the engine so the engine was working fine this morning. Disconnected hose, made repair, reconnected, and now the engine won't start, just a single click from the solenoid.

Batteries are good. Tried both starter and house batteries. House on 13v due to solar, engine on 12.7v. Done Calder's voltage drop tests, which averaged around 0.2v, so pretty sure not a battery issue.

Done the hammer tapping trick. Can turn the engine crank shaft half a turn (is this an indicator of anything? Should I be able to fully turn it?)

I've read the instructions on stuck pinions but his solution doesn't tally with what I see. Part of the problem is that I'm not sure whether my motor is Inertia or pre engaged. I'm guessing the latter. Here's a link to my starter motor for my Perkins Prima M60: http://www.ebay.com/itm/M2277-Perki...Marine-10-Tooth-Starter-Motor-/280763352325My

My next move is to take apart the starter motor but I'm not sure what to do next or what I should be looking for.

Is it possible to tell if something has just 'stuck'? Is this easy to fix? If the motor has burnt out can I make repairs on board? If the starter motor was working fine one minute and then fails to start half an hour later, is this most likely to be burnt out?

Could do with some pointers here as I continue to consult Calder and start to remove the starter motor. Thank you.

Jamie
 
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Can turn the engine crank shaft half a turn (is this an indicator of anything? Should I be able to fully turn it?)

Not being able to turn the engine over could be due to water in a cylinder, you mentioned that you had done some work on the water side, could you have allowed water into the engine.

Removing the injectors will allow any water to be pushed out. A starter motor will just stop when the engine is hydro locked.

Tom.
 
Have you tried turning the engine with the decompressor on? You should be able to rotate it (fairly) freely without compression. Being able to turn it half a turn is OK if the decompressor isn't operating.

If you can rotate it with the decompressor on, I'd turn it a few turns, then try the starter again. You might have just hit a "dead" spot.
 
If you short the 2 big terminals on the solenoid the motor should turn without the pinion engaging the flywheel. If the motor turns motor no burnt out. so would start looking at water in cylingers.

Just a thought when you try to start the engine if the starter motor is OK but the engine will not turn. the battery voltage would tend to drop very low maybe 9 -10 volts but recover when starter motor stopped.
 
ik
demonboy said:
At anchor off the small island of Ko Lipe with nothing but Internet connection, some spanners and Calder's Bible.

Had a water hose leak on the engine so the engine was working fine this morning. Disconnected hose, made repair, reconnected, and now the engine won't start, just a single click from the solenoid.

Batteries are good. Tried both starter and house batteries. House on 13v due to solar, engine on 12.7v. Done Calder's voltage drop tests, which averaged around 0.2v, so pretty sure not a battery issue.

Done the hammer tapping trick. Can turn the engine crank shaft half a turn (is this an indicator of anything? Should I be able to fully turn it?)

I've read the instructions on stuck pinions but his solution doesn't tally with what I see. Part of the problem is that I'm not sure whether my motor is Inertia or pre engaged. I'm guessing the latter. Here's a link to my starter motor for my Perkins Prima M60: http://www.ebay.com/itm/M2277-Perki...Marine-10-Tooth-Starter-Motor-/280763352325My

My next move is to take apart the starter motor but I'm not sure what to do next or what I should be looking for.

Is it possible to tell if something has just 'stuck'? Is this easy to fix? If the motor has burnt out can I make repairs on board? If the starter motor was working fine one minute and then fails to start half an hour later, is this most likely to be burnt out?

Could do with some pointers here as I continue to consult Calder and start to remove the starter motor. Thank you.

Jamie
Click to expand...
Is yours the cam belt one? The MD22 is the perkins prima in Volvo guise and the HP varies on the application.
Going back to basics, is the voltage dropping to 10ish volts when the starter clicks? If not then it isnt engaging and not powering. If the voltage us dropping then the starter us engaging, trying to turn and not being able to.
No voltage drop, the solenoid isnt allowing voltage to flow across the terminals, take off and clean and/or check for loose connections.
Voltage drop, the engine isnt turning, find out why!
S
 
AntarcticPilot said:
Have you tried turning the engine with the decompressor on? You should be able to rotate it (fairly) freely without compression. Being able to turn it half a turn is OK if the decompressor isn't operating.

If you can rotate it with the decompressor on, I'd turn it a few turns, then try the starter again. You might have just hit a "dead" spot.
Click to expand...


No decompressor if its the engine I think it is.
S
 
Thanks for the replies. All connections fine. No voltage drop when starting. Did wonder about the water in the cylinders but I don't think it's possible.

Anyway, the yard manager whose yard we did our refit in was able to send over a mechanic. He did the same tests and concluded dodgy starter motor as well, so it's on its way to the mainland to be checked. Won't get it back till Monday so a few nervous days at anchor ahead of us. We'll see...
 
demonboy said:
Thanks for the replies. All connections fine. No voltage drop when starting. Did wonder about the water in the cylinders but I don't think it's possible.

Anyway, the yard manager whose yard we did our refit in was able to send over a mechanic. He did the same tests and concluded dodgy starter motor as well, so it's on its way to the mainland to be checked. Won't get it back till Monday so a few nervous days at anchor ahead of us. We'll see...
Click to expand...

what spares do you carry o/b
 
More likely to be a stuck brush or a bad connection. The sniff test will tell you if you have managed to actually burn out your starter, which is a rare event.

Unless like me you were applying 36 volts to a Jaguar starter to get more acceleration while bar stool racing. If the magic smoke escaped we knew we would need another starter.

View attachment 50216

N.B. If it is fast or stupid I have probably done it, fast and stupid and I have definitely done it.
 
demonboy said:
Thanks for the replies. All connections fine. No voltage drop when starting. Did wonder about the water in the cylinders but I don't think it's possible.

Anyway, the yard manager whose yard we did our refit in was able to send over a mechanic. He did the same tests and concluded dodgy starter motor as well, so it's on its way to the mainland to be checked. Won't get it back till Monday so a few nervous days at anchor ahead of us. We'll see...
Click to expand...

do you have a wiring loom block connector? if you open it up and look at the connectors, this is usually where problems occur.
Next if no joy is to remove starter motor or test to see if the the cogged bendix engages, if it doesnt then the shaft has rusted slightly and prevents the starter firing into the engine ring gear. If not solenoid, try shorting out the main feed in with the connection opposite, sparks will fly but that bypasses the solenoid if i am not mistaken.
 
It is the contacts in the solenoid. You may be able to dismantle the solenoid and clean up the contacts. Otherwise operate the solenoid as normal (The click is the pinion moving into engagement) and short across the big terminals on the solenoid.
Don't rely on this as you will burn the threads on the terminal posts.
If you can't successfully clean the contacts, get a new solenoid when you can.
 
Lakesailor said:
It is the contacts in the solenoid. You may be able to dismantle the solenoid and clean up the contacts. Otherwise operate the solenoid as normal (The click is the pinion moving into engagement) and short across the big terminals on the solenoid.
Don't rely on this as you will burn the threads on the terminal posts.
If you can't successfully clean the contacts, get a new solenoid when you can.
Click to expand...

Shorting the big terminals on the solenoid should cause the starter motor to turn without engaging the pinon on a pre engaged starter. If the motor turns motor is OK and as you say most likely to be the solenoid contacts. If starter motor does not turn either the motor burnt out or more likely the brushes need attention.
 
When I had a similar problem, with the same engine, it was the solenoid that was knackered. Initially, I had to get a replacement starter, and later repaired the original starter, and carry it as a spare.
 
Rogershaw said:
Shorting the big terminals on the solenoid should cause the starter motor to turn without engaging the pinon on a pre engaged starter. If the motor turns motor is OK and as you say most likely to be the solenoid contacts. If starter motor does not turn either the motor burnt out or more likely the brushes need attention.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if yoi missed what i was saying
Otherwise operate the solenoid as normal (The click is the pinion moving into engagement) and short across the big terminals on the solenoid.
Click to expand...
By this I mean turn the key, hear the click (pinion now engaged) then short across the solenoid terminals. Engine should turn over. You could make a slightly more permanent arrangement with starter cable if not in easy reach of a place to get spares.
 
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