engine size not as advertised..

ozzie

ozzie

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After a lot of thought and comparing, we have put a deposit on the Beneteau Monte Carlo 37 HT. it was advertised as having D4 300s, which is what I wanted ideally. While we were having a second viewing I took a picture of some Volvo paperwork with engine serial numbers on it, and it would appear that the engines are 260s, and not as described. Incidentally it is a dealers stock boat. I still want the boat, but my question is should I be asking for a price adjustment or some goodwill gesture, or doesnt it make any difference?
 
Does a 300 exist and if so what is the list price difference between to two.

Generally you want the larger engine option in any boat. Faster , on the plane faster , load carrying , dealing with fouling.

I would think this is material, it is not as though it is the wrong size induction hob you can just change.
 
ozzie said:
After a lot of thought and comparing, we have put a deposit on the Beneteau Monte Carlo 37 HT. it was advertised as having D4 300s, which is what I wanted ideally. While we were having a second viewing I took a picture of some Volvo paperwork with engine serial numbers on it, and it would appear that the engines are 260s, and not as described. Incidentally it is a dealers stock boat. I still want the boat, but my question is should I be asking for a price adjustment or some goodwill gesture, or doesnt it make any difference?
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Why not just lift the engine hatch and have a look on top of engine in shiney letters will be D4-260 OR D4-300 then you can take it from there.
 
I suppose it all depends on the deal. If everything else about the boat is perfect and you already agreed a good price then maybe you just accept it.

It's worth asking but I wouldn't back out of the deal just on this basis, though of course you could if you wanted to
 
If you dealer isn't a Beneteau dealer get the HIN and then ask a Beneteau dealer to give you the full specs for the boat. With the HIN Beneteau will tell you how if left the factory.

A few dealers down here in the SOF just list the details as per the original factory press release and then you get to 'discover' what is and isn't fitted and at what spec.

FWIW there are two list down this way and both have the D4-260s.
 
I would insist on a test drive to see what real top speed it gives. Having a boat that is low end on power is not ideal. I've had one. Means turbo's etc have to be spot on.
I would be looking for a WOT speed of over 30 Knots so you can cruise at 25 to 30 with some revs to spare. Twin D4's might just cut it. No sure what effect the hardtop will have.
 
I didnt think to check the engines size, the dealer is a very large Beneteau dealer so I believed his details. I did go into the engine bay, but the engines are tucked under the cockpit sole so the tops are not visible. I think I have the hull number on the same picture, so I will phone another Beneteau dealer today. I had a similar situation once when I was buying a car. It was sold to me as a 4x4 but it turned out previous owner had just stuck badges on. Dealer was mortified when I told him, and bent over backwards to keep me happy. He said he could have been in serous trouble if I had gone down a formal complaint route. Not sure if this is the same case.
 
Most MC37 had 260hp D4 as this was the highest power available at launch. 300hp was a later upgrade option
with the airstrip hull and fairly light build D4 260 power will be enough. 300s won't give you much more
 
For me this is a significant misdescription and certainly enough to negotiate a substantial discount from the selling dealer if not pull out of the deal altogether and ask for your deposit back. The boat will always be worth less than a D4 300 engined model and therefore you will suffer a loss by proceeding with the purchase. Personally I would put it to the dealer that the boat has got 13% less horsepower and therefore you want a 13% discount and start from there. If he's not willing to talk around that figure, walk away and ask for your deposit back. And if he's not willing to give your deposit back, go to Trading Standards

This is a dealer stock boat, not a brokerage boat for which the dealer is relying on the owner's information, and the dealer really should have been much more careful about listing the spec of the boat. In fact part of me thinks that the dealer knew what he was doing
 
Deleted User said:
For me this is a significant misdescription and certainly enough to negotiate a substantial discount from the selling dealer if not pull out of the deal altogether and ask for your deposit back. The boat will always be worth less than a D4 300 engined model and therefore you will suffer a loss by proceeding with the purchase. Personally I would put it to the dealer that the boat has got 13% less horsepower and therefore you want a 13% discount and start from there. If he's not willing to talk around that figure, walk away and ask for your deposit back. And if he's not willing to give your deposit back, go to Trading Standards

This is a dealer stock boat, not a brokerage boat for which the dealer is relying on the owner's information, and the dealer really should have been much more careful about listing the spec of the boat. In fact part of me thinks that the dealer knew what he was doing
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Most of the Monte Carlo 37s seem to have D4-300s fitted so be careful - I don't know what the weight is of the boat but you don't want it to be underpowered with a full load and dog
 
I have confirmed that the engines are 260s and spoken to the dealer who says it was just a" typo error ". We have got a great deal on the boat so I have accepted his explanation, and they have addressed some of the issues I was going to do myself. The boat is coming in cheaper than I can even find over the pond, so all things considered subject to the survey and sea trial, I will continue with the purchase. Sea trial and survey booked in for 25th September - Cannot wait!
 
My view ... you are being overly charitable and have got "i must have it" itis.

A 260 is worth less than a 300 - that is a simple fact.

As such you now have a worse deal than you thought. I imagine when looking you considered the price of a new one with 300s and then the deal you were getting you decided this was ok.

The deal is now materially different. The small engines are worth less, and second hand someone will ALWAYS prefer the bigger engines.

It may just be a typo, but the difference in performance is not a typo. It is also not a typo but misdescription by a trader. What else on the inventory is a typo?

My view - either renegotiate the deal or walk away. There are plenty of boats out there, and now is not the ideal time to take delivery so there is no specific rush.
 
ozzie said:
I have confirmed that the engines are 260s and spoken to the dealer who says it was just a" typo error ". We have got a great deal on the boat so I have accepted his explanation, and they have addressed some of the issues I was going to do myself. The boat is coming in cheaper than I can even find over the pond, so all things considered subject to the survey and sea trial, I will continue with the purchase. Sea trial and survey booked in for 25th September - Cannot wait!
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Was the asking price also a typo?
 
jrudge said:
My view ... you are being overly charitable and have got "i must have it" itis.

A 260 is worth less than a 300 - that is a simple fact.

As such you now have a worse deal than you thought. I imagine when looking you considered the price of a new one with 300s and then the deal you were getting you decided this was ok.

The deal is now materially different. The small engines are worth less, and second hand someone will ALWAYS prefer the bigger engines.

It may just be a typo, but the difference in performance is not a typo. It is also not a typo but misdescription by a trader. What else on the inventory is a typo?

My view - either renegotiate the deal or walk away. There are plenty of boats out there, and now is not the ideal time to take delivery so there is no specific rush.
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How can you say that when you have no idea what price he is paying? What you say is only valid if there are two otherwise identical boats except for the engines and if the bigger engines are more valuable then that boat may command a higher price.

However, suggesting he is paying over the odds on the basis of the information given is just wrong. Only he can determine whether he is prepared to pay the price and he is.
 
If we assume that any buyer of anything, let alone something costing several hundred thousand pounds will look at the market price of what he is buying as part of the negotiation process then I think I can say that. The reference point was a 300. A 300 will cost more than a 260. The deal is hence worse then thought. If you started out knowing it was a 260 you may or may not have reached the same prices as now - but it is still a worse deal and that cannot really be in dispute.
 
jrudge said:
If we assume that any buyer of anything, let alone something costing several hundred thousand pounds will look at the market price of what he is buying as part of the negotiation process then I think I can say that. The reference point was a 300. A 300 will cost more than a 260. The deal is hence worse then thought. If you started out knowing it was a 260 you may or may not have reached the same prices as now - but it is still a worse deal and that cannot really be in dispute.
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As you have pointed out already, it is a blatant misdescription whether it be an accidental typo or deliberate sleight of hand. The OP may well take the view that there is no better deal out there but that doesn't alter the fact by definition, the OP is not getting the deal he thought he had agreed to, he will likely suffer a loss on resale as a result of that misdescription and IMHO deserves to be compensated for that. Having said that, the OP seems to have accepted the situation but all the same, the dealer has dodged a bullet here

I'm betting that there wouldn't be the same kind of conciliatory tone if we were talking about a car dealer here, say if the OP had ordered a 2 litre engined car and the dealer actually supplied a 1.6 litre one:eek:
 
jrudge said:
My view ... you are being overly charitable and have got "i must have it" itis.

A 260 is worth less than a 300 - that is a simple fact.

As such you now have a worse deal than you thought. I imagine when looking you considered the price of a new one with 300s and then the deal you were getting you decided this was ok.

The deal is now materially different. The small engines are worth less, and second hand someone will ALWAYS prefer the bigger engines.

It may just be a typo, but the difference in performance is not a typo. It is also not a typo but misdescription by a trader. What else on the inventory is a typo?

My view - either renegotiate the deal or walk away. There are plenty of boats out there, and now is not the ideal time to take delivery so there is no specific rush.
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But what if the boat is already £20k less than the cheapest?
The broker says 'OK he's your deposit back'

Now you go and buy the other boat at £20k more. What have you gained?

I'm not saying this is the case, but you cant force the broker to reduce the price and if the boat is a) perfect in every other way and b) already good value (even for s 260Hp boat) then to reject it really is just standing on a principle, when in reality life it too short and you might as well go boating in a nice boat.
 
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