engine oil

[Malish]

It seems like we have severe dose of specification sheet dyslexia on this forum. In simple terms the engine manufacture requires either 20W30 or 10W30 grade to either CF4 or CG 4. Plenty of universal diesel lube out there from agricultural suppliers.

Then we have people wading without even reading spec sheet recommending ASDA or Screwfix 15W40. Last time I went to ASDA could not move in the car park for battered Landovers towing Ivor Williams trailers being loaded with tubs of oil.

Then here we go again Viv Cox wades in with is own interpretation of what he thinks Kubota should be recommending ‘Not sure what is the correct viscosity for your engine but I would most definitely not use a 5W in any yacht engine’ Who even mentioned a 5W grade? Spec sheet dyslexia again, as Kubota is perfectly clear 20-30 or 10-30. Then the assumption that he knows better than the manufacturer regarding the recommended oil grade and the operating temperature envelope.

Seems like we have a lot of sheep incapable of interpreting a manufacturers spec sheet following a self appointed expert with zero experience diesel engine design and operation.

Troll warning!
But fwiw I pointed out the 15-40 screwfix option because I have a 3 cylinder Nanni and the manual recommends 15-40 so that is what I put in it!

 

[VicS]

Troll warning!
But fwiw I pointed out the 15-40 screwfix option because I have a 3 cylinder Nanni and the manual recommends 15-40 so that is what I put in it!

The only snag is that an API CD oil was probably originally specified. The Screwfix oil is API CH-4, ACEA B3 ,B4, E3.
Vyv Cox usually argues against the use of such high spec oils in older engines on the basis that oils with a high TBN cause high rates of wear of tappets cams and cylinder bores.

 

[Sans Bateau]

I'm sorry I have posted this before, for those who have seen it. Several years ago, I went into a local marine engine specialist to buy oil and filters for the VP, it was for our last boat, a VP2002.

I was at that time convinced that the best way to treat the engine was to keep the revs down and use the very best oil I could get. The filters were put on the counter and a plastic container of some shell oil that looked a little historic! I questioned the sanity of using this old krap fit for an oil can in my lovely VP engine.

The guy behind the counter turned out to be the owner of the business and we got onto talking about engines and oil. He said exactly the same as Vyv is saying about the API spec of oil, my engine man went on to tell me he replaces more engines that are 'loved' to death, with low revs and inappropriate oil than for any other reason. He said nearly every smokey oil burning engine he sees is nothing to do with being worn out, its glazed bores.

API CD oil is still available in France in the supermarkets, Morris of Shrewsbury do/did a CD rated oil and Hlafords do a 'Classic car' oil that is CC! So take the trouble to find the oil, even if it costs more than Asda or Screwfix, it will work out cheaper than a new donker.

 

[Malish]

The only snag is that an API CD oil was probably originally specified. The Screwfix oil is API CH-4, ACEA B3 ,B4, E3.
Vyv Cox usually argues against the use of such high spec oils in older engines on the basis that oils with a high TBN cause high rates of wear of tappets cams and cylinder bores.

I fully respect Vyv's views, especially with respect to more mature engine designs but I doubt that a small modern Far East engine falls into that category. I don't have the manual to hand (do you?) but Beta Marine use the same base engine and this is from the manual available from their website:

"Engine oil: Engine oil quality should have the minimum
properties of the American Petroleum Institute “API”
classification CF (CD, or CE). The following table gives grades
of oil viscosity required for various ambient temperature
ranges.
Note: A good quality SAE 15W/40 mineral based multigrade
oil as used in most car diesel engines will meet requirements.
Do not use ‘Turbo Diesel Oil’ or additives, and the use of
synthetic oil is not recommended."

Note the word minimum; if you want CF then buy the petrol equivalent

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

As an oil idiot i found this useful.

http://www.driverstechnology.co.uk/oils.htm

 

[robertj]

You have no idea whatsoever of my diesel engine experience. What is very clear is that you have no experience or knowledge of the typical operating regime of most yacht auxiliary engines.

Also that you are so full of yourself that you leap in to have a go at m
e without bothering to read the thread.

so vyv

I have an old bukh 20 I run it summer only so would sae 30 or 20/50 be better that 15/40 ?

Bob

 

[MonniotC]

Morris of Shrewsbury do/did a CD rated oil

http://www.morrislubricants.co.uk/scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=91

still do.

 

[DogWatch]

You have no idea whatsoever of my diesel engine experience. What is very clear is that you have no experience or knowledge of the typical operating regime of most yacht auxiliary engines.

Also that you are so full of yourself that you leap in to have a go at me without bothering to read the thread.

He doesn't appear to have much experience of basic social etiquette either, I thought I was the forum berk, I am an amateur compared to this guy.

 

[Sans Bateau]

http://www.morrislubricants.co.uk/scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=91

still do.

Those oils are CC, they used to do a CD version of their Magnol oil, it always was difficult to find on their web site, even doing a search, I must phone them one day.

 

[vyv_cox]

so vyv

I have an old bukh 20 I run it summer only so would sae 30 or 20/50 be better that 15/40 ?

Bob

Perhaps the main function of viscosity is to keep the bearings from contacting the shaft. Modern very low viscosity oils have been developed solely to improve fuel economy and harder, more wear resistant bearings running on hardened shafts have been developed to cope with them. As engines wear with age the clearance between bearings and shaft increases with the result that there is a tendency for greater impact, which can be resisted to some extent by increasing the oil's viscosity. The oils sold in car parts shops for older engines are usually 20W/50 for this reason. The trade-off is that more viscous oils don't lubricate so quickly from start-up when cold.

I think the answer is to stay with 15W/40 unless there are signs that bearing wear is reaching serious levels, i.e. if the warning light begins to flicker on tickover. Then think about going to 20W/50.

 

[robertj]

He doesn't appear to have much experience of basic social etiquette either, I thought I was the forum berk, I am an amateur compared to this guy.

to whom are you referring here?

 

[vyv_cox]

I was at that time convinced that the best way to treat the engine was to keep the revs down and use the very best oil I could get. The filters were put on the counter and a plastic container of some shell oil that looked a little historic! I questioned the sanity of using this old krap fit for an oil can in my lovely VP engine.

Yellow plastic container? That would be the old Rotella C, API CD. Grand stuff, I used it for many years. Shell recycle these names from time to time, so Rotella has a very different spec nowadays.

Shell X100 Super is to API SG/CD and still made. Not an oil you see every day but must be obtainable.

 

[Sans Bateau]

Vyv as you are around, API CC, any views?

It was the X100

 

[vyv_cox]

Bukh say, re the normally-aspirated engines (paraphrased):
Use API CC, except when operating under difficult conditions, i.e. frequent cold starting, short operating periods, very variable loads, in which case use CD. Also, when the sulphur content of the fuel is above 1% use CD. Interesting that the Kubota link given above also differentiates between sulphur levels.

1% sulphur would be an enormous amount nowadays, the implication being that API CC is probably quite OK. It does seem to be far more available than CD, widely used in all sorts of equipment. TBN of API CC is 3, API CD is 4, so nowhere near as high as the modern lubricants.

 

[fireball]

<snip>Then here we go again Viv Cox wades in with is own interpretation <snip>

Vyv_Cox spells people's names correctly for a start ...

When you start producing quality advice we may start to listen to you ... until then ....

 

[Sans Bateau]

OK, done a little research, made a phone call in fact! I spoke to Morris of Shrewsbury technical dept. Their Golden Film SAE 10/40 oil is in fact API CC/CD!

This one here:

http://www.morrislubricants.co.uk/scripts/prodview.asp?idcat=139&idProduct=368

I asked why it is not marketed as CC/CD and he told me it is because the narrow boat market only wants a CC oil!! They are totally ignoring the needs of the yacht end of the marine market, missing a trick I'd say.

So this will be the last ever thread on engine oil! As we can now all buy our oil from Morris, by mail order!!

PS, fireball, I'm no expert, just a relayer of others advice!

 

[fireball]

and you presented the information along with the background of your research ... nothing wrong with that at all ... but don't come crying to me when Refuller rebukes your information

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

I have some Morris Magnol 15w40 which i thought was right for my Nanni engine that specifies 15w40 CD.

On the front of the bottle it says API CF-4/CF/CD Diesel Engine Oil
On the back it says API CF-4/CF/SG

I spoke to the technical guy and he said the label on the back is garbage and a misprint.

Anyway, I then asked him which Morris oil I should use and he said the one to use was

"Golden Film Marine 10w/40 Engine Oil API CC/SF (CCO)

The SAE 10w/40 classification makes the lubricant suitable for use in all canal boat engines where an SAE 15w/40 may be required. SAE 10w/40 will flow more rapidly at low temperatures providing improved component protection."

When I queried him that it said CC, not CD, he said that if they put CD they get lots of complaints. So they call it CC instead!

What is CC? Cant find any reference to it.
Should I use this oil?

 

[brianhumber]

It does seem that subjects like these bring out deep passions in people but it makes for most enjoyable reading on a wet windy day.

The poster who said that more damage is done to engines by the well intentioned over specing hits my button.

My little 1987 1.6 Ford XLD keeps chugging along with minimal problems and has only ever had the most basic of oil in it. Although it has run for several thousand hours on this, I still have good oil pressure, no smoke, minimal oil consumption and excellent cold starting. Latest oil sample just starting suggest that current oil is coming to the end of its time in my sump, but no complaints as it is 5 years since the last change, - used about litre in top up oil over that time.

As a skip rat, I see lots of expensive modern synthetic empty oil cans in chichester marinas skips so guess lots of owners who DIY understandably try to play safe buy buying expensive oil or local marine 'engineers' are kidding a lot of owners as well.


Brian

 

[VicS]

What is CC? Cant find any reference to it.
Should I use this oil?

It's an earlier API spec SEE HERE