Engine for Kestrel 22

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mehtaj

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Hi

I've got a GRP Kestrel 22, displacement 1500kg with a Vire 7 inboard which needs replacing. Going diesel is not an option due to cost so I was thinking of an outboard. Has anyone any experience of doing this? Guess I would need a 8hp (or would a 5hp do?) but am worried about putting the weight (48kg) on the stern. At the moment I have superb control in harbour with the inboard, do you loose that with an outboard especially going astern?

Thanks for your help
 
Personally i would not go as small as a 5hp. Worth looking at what is available in the 6hp range if you are concerned about weight. Some are sort of uprated 5s and therefore no heavier than that, others are the same as 8hps and therefore heavier.

Also worth looking at models intended as sailing yacht auxiliaries as they often have high thrust, low pitch, props compared with "standard" models.

You will certainly need a long shaft model mounted deep enough to keep the prop in the water.

A Kestrel has a substantial stern deck doesn't it that will make access to the outboard controls difficult.

manoeuvring is severely affected because you do not get the benefit of the prop-wash over the rudder.

Going astern can be affected by the exhaust being drawn into the prop, depending on the design.

Click the pic below to see an Evinrude Yachtwin. It has a high thrust prop with a small pitch. There are extra exhaust outlets (below the upper cavitation plate) so that the exhaust gas does not get drawn into the prop when going astern. It is a long shaft but the extra 5" is used to put the prop deeper rather than to fit a higher mounting position.

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Not sure of that 48kg figure. I have a Mercury Mariner 9.9hp and it only weighs 38kg. With your aft deck you'd go for a remote control option with electric start and this is only available from 8hp upwards. 2nd hand with warranty is approx £700. the difficulty will be finding a 2nd hand one with long shaft. New is £1300 and can be fitted from new with a Tohatsu high thrust prop.
 
The weight you quote for an 8hp outboard is very high. That one you see in my pic is a 6hp 2 stroke and weighs 27.4 kg. the 8hp version has an extra long shaft but otherwise is basically the same weighs 29kg

I thought mine was heavy!
 
Hi Jimi,

My first boat was a K22 a long time ago,i went down the same road as you,the inboard Vire was siezed so i replaced it with a 5hp seagull which was ok,then i replaced that with an Evenrude 7.5hp which was way better, kicked up quite a bow wave if i remember, but as Vic has said using the controls on the outboard can be a pain, cant you fix the Vire?
 
Five hp should be fine. I had a side-mounted Seagull 102 plus driving my old 32 ft ex-six metre and it gave four knots in most conditions and on one occasion moved the boat at three knots into a force 6. The Seagull horse-power was "4 to 5" but magazine reports on them expressed the view that their quoted figures were "optimistic."

Mind you control was another issue. There was no neutral or reverse (except two buckets) and the boat swung about 20 degrees to port when the engine was started before I got steerage-way. There were no marinas or pontoons to worry about, only the Crinan Canal. There were a lot of boats with similar arrangements about at the time, so plenty of people were prepared to drop their drinks and rush to help us when they saw one of us approaching their boats in a lock.
 
Forgot that the Kestrel had a transom hung rudder!

Make sure it does not clout the outboard prop!

You also have to learn to live with the fact that with an outboard mounted off centre the boat will turn one way in a tight circle but needs half the ocean to turn the other way.
 
Yes the transon hung rudder can be a problem, my first outing to sea on my first boat, Kestral 22,my seagull 5hp was ok until i turned the boat, bang.. there goes the spring on the prop, i didnt know there was such a thing until i was towed back in to find out what went wrong, it was soon replaced by some kind soul and off i went again, this time not turning so sharply. happy days.
 
Just to be different.

I love outboards and think that inboards are an expensive solution.

If you are reasonably agile you can sit on the stern deck with the tiller in one hand and the outboard control arm in the other and spin, back, crab,maintain station and or walk that boat sideways, upwind, downwind, turn it in less than its own length, never worry about fouling the innaccessible prop, drag when sailing, leaky propshaft bearings, foul smells in the cabin, flooded exhausts, clogged throughhulls, etc etc.

And the space under the cockpit becomes a really useful lazarette or somewhere to fit a watertank.

Any weight worries can be offset by bunging some more anchor chain up forward..

The trick to a successful outboard installation is -as soundly detailed already-a good choice of motor (8hp +), a quality lifting bracket set far enough away from the rudder to avoid contact, maybe a peg set into the deck so that the motor arm can be casually located in a straight ahead position or set to one side or the other to assist turning when if you are shorthanded and dont want to feel silly holding both the motor arm and the tiller...
I have singlehanded in and out of some very tightspots on 28ft. A Kestrel will be a doddle- but fit a good padlock or keep the motor in the cabin if you have a swinging mooring maybe ?

Hope that helps..
 
Is the Vire beyond redemption? Parts are still available I believe, they are very light and easy to remove and to work on, and you'll keep the advantage of an inboard.
 
Hi all

Many thanks everyone for your thoughts. Really useful. The weight I quoted was for a 4 stroke Honda BF8, I guess a 2 stroke would be lighter. I sail on the east coast (Thames) so punching the tide is often necessary. I've been mending the Vire ever since I got the boat 10 years ago. It's had 2 rebuilds over the years but has always been problematic. They're no longer produced and parts are getting harder to source. Got to the stage when I just want something that goes! Sounds like I will have to just relearn boat handling with an outboard arrangement. I'll post what I finally go with and how it works.

Thanks again
 
You have had a lot of good advice.

One final point, I would go for an ultra long shaft which Tohatsu make (25 inch against 20 inch long shaft).

The biggest problem I have found is transom mounted outboard props coming out of the water in very bumpy seas.

As far as I know Tohatsu are the only makers of ultra long shaft outboards, and I would prefer an ultra long shaft 6HP sail drive than another make long shaft 8hp.
 
I agree that an extra long shaft (25") engine might be a good choice for a Kestrel but I think you will find that in the Tohatsu range the 9.8hp is the smallest in which that shaft length is offered. The quoted weight is 37 kg which is almost certainly for the standard (15") shaft model.

I think you will find that is pretty general but I have not checked all the makes .... I'm not buying one!

I also notice that they all, with the exception of the smallest two, have through hub exhaust which leads to very poor drive astern. Again that may be pretty general as well.

Another consideration is an electrical output. The so called alternators on small outboards only produce typically 5 or 6 amps maximum going flat out and in many/most cases will require the addition of a rectifier for a minimal level of battery charging.
 
Yes I am not surprised I think many probably offer it as an option on the 9.9s

The yanks use these extra long shafts on their "toons"
 
Quote from http://www.tohatsu-uk.net/

"Specially designed with yachtsmen in mind, Tohatsu's Sail Drive engines are ideal when higher thrust is required. Currently available in Tohatsu's reliable lightweight 4,5,6,8,9.8hp range of engines.
The sail drive versions come with the following additional features:
High Thrust Sail Drive Propeller
Charging Unit
Sail Drive Logo
20" long shaft as standard
Tohatsu Sail Drive Engines are also available with a 25" ultra long shaft."
 
Thanks Nigel, will look into that. Seems that getting the right pitch prop helps. Also a longer shaft to help keep the prop in the water with swell. As its only an auxillary I guess the extra drag from a deeper shaft can be lived with.
 
Hello Jim My last boat was an Anderson 22 which is quite similar to your Kestrel. I had a Suzuki 4 hp 4 stroke with a high thrust prop that gave me plenty of power .

The prop is the vital part.A prop suitable for the same engine on a small dinghy will not have as much grip on the water and will not stop the heavier boat when going astern.

Most Anderson 22 owners have either a 5 or a 6 hp.Definitely donrt go any bigger or you will just be parking unneccesary weight on the back of your boat and getting a slipped disc lifting it on and off.

Most outboard engines are available with remote control so you mount the control lever close to the helm position and connect it to the outboard with cables. Much better as you dont need to be hanging over the back to change gear etc.

Our present boat is a Coronado 25 with an 8 hp outboard with remote control. Very happy with it.

PS you should be able to fit an adjustable bracket to lift the engine then tilt it copmpletely out of the water for zero drag when sailing.

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You can see the remote control lever in this pic.
 
Just thought I'd post an update. Finally bit the bullet, turfed the old engine out and fitted a 6hp Tohatsu sailpro outboard on a bracket. First trials have been good, prop seems to stay in the water even in a seaway provided I'm head on to the waves. Interestingly max revs seem to be reached at 3/4 trottle so I'm guessing that the engines probably a little underpowered. Even so it's giving me more than the old Vire was. So nice to have something that starts first time! Thanks again to everyone for their advice
 
mehtaj said:
Hi

I've got a GRP Kestrel 22, displacement 1500kg with a Vire 7 inboard which needs replacing. Going diesel is not an option due to cost so I was thinking of an outboard. Has anyone any experience of doing this? Guess I would need a 8hp (or would a 5hp do?) but am worried about putting the weight (48kg) on the stern. At the moment I have superb control in harbour with the inboard, do you loose that with an outboard especially going astern?

Thanks for your help
Click to expand...

why dont you rip out the vire and replace it with a petter mini-six diesel. My father used to have one on his boat it was a fine engine. I regularly see them on ebay for between £50 and £400 depending on condition. Or boats and outboards dot com. Buy a complete package with gearbox and wiring loom for less than a fourstroke outboard. At worst you'll have to beef up your engine mounts a little with some chopped strand mat.
In my opinion, the outboard option might be okay for a trailer sailer, but since you have the mounts, shaft,tube, prop etc you'd put more effort into fitting an outboard, than replacing with a decent used inboard. It will be cheaper to run, more reliable and the prop will stay under the water not out in the air when you need it most. finally, im not sure exactly how you would be fitting the outboard, but I have seen people smash into pontoons and other boats trying to steer with a tiller whilst leaning over a transom to put an outboard in or out of gear. Im generalising I know, its just you said how nice and easy you find the boat at the moment with the inboard.
At least have a think about it...
 
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