Engine comp fire extinguisher powder or gas ?

[GrahamM376]

What would be wrong with CO2?

Nasty stuff in confined space, kills quickly. Banned on boats in Portugal.

 

[GrahamHR]

If you want the fire out Gas drench for me. I know its illegal, but ideally Halon. If the fire is out you at least live to make your Court appearance for polluting the environment.

Stupid, stupid regulations ! Halons used in fire extinguishers cause no problems until they enter the atmosphere; if used to extinguish a fire , they are no longer halons and cause any fire to produce less CO2 as it's less long lived. Freons, diffusing out of foams ( fridges etc) was the real issue ( almost as badly addressed).

 

[William_H]

Stupid, stupid regulations ! Halons used in fire extinguishers cause no problems until they enter the atmosphere; if used to extinguish a fire , they are no longer halons and cause any fire to produce less CO2 as it's less long lived. Freons, diffusing out of foams ( fridges etc) was the real issue ( almost as badly addressed).

I think the concern is that the halons in extinguishers were occasionally lost to the atmosphere by leaks, faults or vandalism. I know I had a 1kg halon extinguisher in the kitchen that i discovered fter some years to have been discharged I don't know by whom but that lot got into the atmosphere. I read somehwere that at one stage the US navy used thousands of tons of halon per year almost none of which was actually converted in a fire. Hence the international ban (far beyond EU) Certainly in Australia old fridges have to be carefully and proffessionally degassed to avert halon going into the atmosphere. No way could you buy halon for fridge or extinguisher.
Regarding CO2 the problem is that it remains a gas so must be stored around 2000psi or more. Requiring high pressure bottles and then regular pressure testing of bottles. The released CO2 does provide a lot of cooling though. As well as eliminating O2. While CO2 is deadly when oxygen is excluded I would not imagine it is such a dangerous gas given that you would be puffing for more air and know to get out. Nothing like CO or other poisonous gases. good luck olewill

 

[Strolls]

… then it occurred to me - isn't the gas it produces air born and the engine compartment has a fan which circulates air from outside so in the event of fire would the gas (all or partially) be sucked outside thereby reducing the effectiveness of the extinguisher - - or am I over egging that pudding ?

I just found a video by a company called Firetrace who make extinguisher systems - this was demonstrating their powder system, but it extinguished the fire within a second or two.

Assuming a halon or haylon-replacement system operates as quickly, then I doubt a fan would have enough throughput to make much difference.

Are you sure it is actually halon, rather than one of the various replacement gases? Given that it's been illegal throughout the EU and the US for many years, which must be the majority of the potential market, I would wonder who's still making them.

Looks like they're readily available for aviation purposes.

http://www.flightstore.co.uk/aircraft-supplies-c840/fire-extinguishers-c175

The HFC replacements are not as effective.

DuPont claim otherwise, although obviously they have a bias.

It looks like haylon replacements have now been in production for 20 odd years - could they have improved over that time?

http://www2.dupont.com/FE/en_US/products/fe36.html

 

[Len Ingalls]

I think the concern is that the halons in extinguishers were occasionally lost to the atmosphere by leaks, faults or vandalism. I know I had a 1kg halon extinguisher in the kitchen that i discovered fter some years to have been discharged I don't know by whom but that lot got into the atmosphere. I read somehwere that at one stage the US navy used thousands of tons of halon per year almost none of which was actually converted in a fire. Hence the international ban (far beyond EU) Certainly in Australia old fridges have to be carefully and proffessionally degassed to avert halon going into the atmosphere. No way could you buy halon for fridge or extinguisher.
Regarding CO2 the problem is that it remains a gas so must be stored around 2000psi or more. Requiring high pressure bottles and then regular pressure testing of bottles. The released CO2 does provide a lot of cooling though. As well as eliminating O2. While CO2 is deadly when oxygen is excluded I would not imagine it is such a dangerous gas given that you would be puffing for more air and know to get out. Nothing like CO or other poisonous gases. good luck olewill

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide

Yes-I agree. CO2 is toxic only in extreme concentrations. It will "smother" you in an enclosed space by replacing the oxygen,but it will not poison you.
Since the OP asked about releasing a gas into a burning engine compartment & presuming he is not in there also,then I think CO2 is perhaps the best legal,non-toxic,non polluting gas available,at a reasonable cost,to date.
It is not a good idea to release it manually or automatically into an occupied compartment,& I think that is partly why there is an aversion to it's use in large,staffed eng.rooms. However,neither is choking dry chemical(soda).
I'm talking small boats here with non-staffed spaces.
It will also stop a runaway diesel,with no harm.
Cheers / Len

 

[Len Ingalls]

http://www.fireboy-xintex.com/marine-fire-extinguishing-systems/

 

[Len Ingalls]

http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/bro...er-co2-5-lb-co2-pro-5-cdm-120826/4,24677.html

 

[KellysEye]

Gas, powder destroys the electrical cables and as said makes a serious mess

 

[prv]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide

Yes-I agree. CO2 is toxic only in extreme concentrations. It will "smother" you in an enclosed space by replacing the oxygen,but it will not poison you.

From your own Wikipedia link:

Concentrations of 7% to 10% (70,000 to 100,000 ppm) may cause suffocation, even in the presence of sufficient oxygen

I don't know what concentration is needed to put out a fire, or is likely after releasing a typical size extinguisher in a typical boat, but since it does nothing chemically to the fire and only works by excluding oxygen I guess it has to be a lot higher than 10%.

I think CO2 is perhaps the best legal,non-toxic,non polluting gas available,at a reasonable cost,to date.

So what's wrong with an actual extinguishing agent like FE36?

http://www.safelincs.co.uk/fireblitz-automatic-fe36-fire-extinguisher/

Pete

 

[Len Ingalls]

From your own Wikipedia link:



I don't know what concentration is needed to put out a fire, or is likely after releasing a typical size extinguisher in a typical boat, but since it does nothing chemically to the fire and only works by excluding oxygen I guess it has to be a lot higher than 10%.

As I said-don't set CO2 off into a staffed,closed area.

Had no knowledge of FE36,so Google tells me 2 things. (1) Non-toxic,as long as fluoric acid residue caution is followed. (2) Not available in N.A. in retail stores.Did find 2 distributors in US & a handfull in Canada,but they appear to be more commercial oriented.
Damn colonials-always behind.

/Cheers/ Len



So what's wrong with an actual extinguishing agent like FE36?

http://www.safelincs.co.uk/fireblitz-automatic-fe36-fire-extinguisher/

Pete

Tks for link