Energy Saving Bulbs - Not LEDs

[Chris_Robb]

These are quite common in South Africa because there are a lot of land based Solar setups.
I have these in the cockpit and main cabin and they really make a difference. I use them in bathroom type flush fittings and intend fitting them on my UK boat.

As these CCFL's are much cheaper than LED's I will buy some first. Jim Kings observations seem to confirm that when you apply "how does the light feel (HDLF) " lumens then it looks like they use effectively less amps per HDLF lumens. So you see, I have now invented a new measurement of light!

Well, we will see.

Thanks all you guys who keep pointing me at LED's - still not convinced, but I will have actual comparisons of the 2 types when I get to the boat in April.....

What do you do in the winter of your boat is there and you are here!!!

 

[William_H]

Light wavelength

William, the problem as I understand it is that LEDs give a single wavelength light. It looks incredibly bright to look at but illuminates very little. I have seen loads of new ones, I cannot agree that they are any good. Hence thinking of something else.

Just to be correct a coloured LED ie red emits light in a fairly narrow bandwidth. It was some time after invention of LEDs that white light was produced. White light has a mixture of all visible wavelength. The white lEd is produced by having a mixture of coloured light producing material and is generally not an even distribution like sunlight but has peaks of different colours. Hence different LED manufacturers produce a different coloured white light. LED here referring to the little diode bulb not the whole fitting.
As for looking bright but not iluminating anything I dunno how that works! olewill

 

[Chris_Robb]

As for looking bright but not iluminating anything I dunno how that works! olewill

Will - Slight exaggeration - When you look at a bright LED it blinds you. However, look at where its shinning, and you would not believe it is the same light source. Quite what that effect is, I don't know, hence my new definition HDLF...... But it certainly means that they are the best for signal lamps.

Anyway, I have now ordered a bunch of CCFL's and will try those and report back on trials (probably in the car as the boat is in Greece and I'm getting boat sick).

If anyone on the south coast has a set of modern LEDs and wants to do a controlled measurement of the new HDLF rating, then let me know and we could then publish the results in PBO instead of another marina docking article

 

[Ruffles]

Will - Slight exaggeration - When you look at a bright LED it blinds you. However, look at where its shinning, and you would not believe it is the same light source.

This affect is very noticeable with head torches. If you're in a group of people climbing at night you have to be very careful to angle the light down. I still have my old Petzl tungsten head torch. It provides better illumination and less glare. But batteries cost a fortune so it never gets used!

I too find LED light hard to live with though I still use some on the boat. And I must admit I've only used the cheap supermarket MR16s. I also wear glasses and have significant astigmatism in one eye. I believe white LEDs use phosphor coatings to spread the spectrum which presumably leaves dips in the spectrum.

I've just learnt a new word. Metamerism

 

[Resolution]

As for looking bright but not iluminating anything I dunno how that works! olewill

Could this be a factor of Chris's advancing age?

 

[Chris_Robb]

Could this be a factor of Chris's advancing age?

InnesKer - you are not far enough away to escape my wroth

 

[lw395]

I believe white LEDs use phosphor coatings to spread the spectrum which presumably leaves dips in the spectrum.

That's also how fluorescents work.
I suspect the phosphors in fluorescents are more highly developed and easier to implement, because they have a lot more space to work with.
For some work, there is no substitute for a halogen bulb, other than sunlight of course.
Useful to know the 12V CCFL's are on the market, hopefully the price will come down in due course.
You could just use an inverter and a mains cfl of course, but it's nice to dispense with mains wiring. I guess there are still high voltages within the bulb base, best to try and keep it dry?

 

[noelex]

For some work, there is no substitute for a halogen bulb

I am still trying to think of an application on a boat that would not be better done with an alternative light source. (ignoring the cost of the "bulb")

 

[lw395]

I am still trying to think of an application on a boat that would not be better done with an alternative light source. (ignoring the cost of the "bulb")

Reading anything that's in colour?
It's not for nothing that places like art galleries and shops are stuffed with halogen lights.
Things look better under them than under fluorescent light.
Some things just do not look right without full spectrum white light.
A 10W halogen spot/reading light with cfl's for background is sometimes a good compromise.

If you've ever worked with no natural light for a very long day, you may appreciate that fluorescent light is not the full shilling.

 

[noelex]

Reading anything that's in colour?
It's not for nothing that places like art galleries and shops are stuffed with halogen lights.
Things look better under them than under fluorescent light.
Some things just do not look right without full spectrum white light.
A 10W halogen spot/reading light with cfl's for background is sometimes a good compromise.

If you've ever worked with no natural light for a very long day, you may appreciate that fluorescent light is not the full shilling.

I do read color all the time under LED lighting.

I am not sure what art galleries and shops have to do with boat lighting, but their main requirement is for collimated spot luminaries. This has traditionally been supplied by halogen lights (due to their small size), but most new installations are moving to LED as in this case study.

http://www.lumicrest.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=6

Art galleries and shops don’t have the limited power supply and small area that is present on a boat, but nevertheless the move is away from halogen to newer technologies.

 

[RobBrown]

Lidl LEDs

I can only echo Eltons post on the first page. I relaced my halogen bulbs in my forepeak spots with the Livarno 12V LEDs from Lidl. Pin fittings, £5.99 each. Extraordinarily bright, especially for the power consumption and deffo much brighter than the halogens and a good quality light over a wide area. What more can I say?

 

[Conachair]

Just out of interest - are ccl's as radio noisy as normal flourescents? I'm going to get rid of the one in the main cabin, cruising if you want to listen to am radio or download a weatherfax via ssb then the light needs to be off. The latest batch of leds seem to be ok.

 

[noelex]

Just out of interest - are ccl's as radio noisy as normal flourescents? I'm going to get rid of the one in the main cabin, cruising if you want to listen to am radio or download a weatherfax via ssb then the light needs to be off. The latest batch of leds seem to be ok.

Lots of RF noise on the ones I used, unfortunately.
It will depend on the driver, but my guess is to produce the required voltage they are likely to be noisy unless very carefully designed.

 

[nigelmercier]

I got some SMD leds which have proved to be excellent. These have little yellow squares to emit light rather than the little glass balls of the older style.

The mounting of the LEDs (SMD or TH) makes no difference to the quality of the light, it's just easier to pack more SMDs into a smaller space.

I'm considering modifying my light fittings from GY6.35 to MR16, and using these. Anyone know where I can get some low-profile plain sockets?

 

[jordanbasset]

I have recently replaced my halogens with LED G4 12SMD Cool White lights. I have no problem with the cool white light and it makes reading very easy. Have tested them against my old halogens an both myself and my wife find the new LED's appear to give out more light and are better to read by.
Would highly recommend them but not cheap at £10 each, but think they will come down in price as I have now seem some that look similar on ebay for £6 each

 

[noelex]

, but think they will come down in price as I have now seem some that look similar on ebay for £6 each

Be aware that one LED emitter looks similar or even identical to another, but there can be a massive difference in their light output and color temperature.
Good LED lights are very good. Most people who are unhappy with LEDs have purchased products that look identical, but perform terribly.
There are bargains to be had, but often a cheap product may have 5X less output 1/1000 the life and terrible color.
The whole lounge area of my boat is illuminated at the moment by 2X 3w Cree R5 emitters. They are only driven to 1w each (any more is too bright). These are homemade but this sort of technology will be available in commercial lights shortly.

 

[musarkie]

Hi
Iam a buyer for one on the north west largest electrical contractors I deal with all types of lighting on a commercial badus every day

Last tear I changed all my old fittings for purpose made LEDs for power cunsumption purpose. Last month I replaced then all back to conventional fittings.whilst LEDs have great potential on certain areas for light " atmosphere" they are no where as good as good old fashioned incandescent lamps. They produce a cold despressing light. My advise is not to bother and watch your battery levels. You will have the same effect with the low energy flourescents. They are mains powered and give a cold output.

Hope this helps

 

[elton]

whilst LEDs have great potential on certain areas for light " atmosphere" they are no where as good as good old fashioned incandescent lamps. They produce a cold despressing light.

Whilst I'd agree there are some LED lamps on the market as you describe, high quality LED lamps are also available at competitive prices, which are vastly superior to incandecent types. The inferior quality lamps are not fit for purpose, but often sell for similar prices to the quality ones.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Hi
You will have the same effect with the low energy flourescents. They are mains powered and give a cold output.

Hope this helps

The ones I am referring to are 12 Volts. I shall have some samples in a couple of days. However I do agree with you on LEDs.

 

[Conachair]

Hi
Iam a buyer for one on the north west largest electrical contractors I deal with all types of lighting on a commercial badus every day

Last tear I changed all my old fittings for purpose made LEDs for power cunsumption purpose. Last month I replaced then all back to conventional fittings.whilst LEDs have great potential on certain areas for light " atmosphere" they are no where as good as good old fashioned incandescent lamps. They produce a cold despressing light. My advise is not to bother and watch your battery levels. You will have the same effect with the low energy flourescents. They are mains powered and give a cold output.

Hope this helps

This is fast becoming a yeah or nay thread like mmgw or anchors

i had bad experiences with leds and then got some good ones, now I can't tell the differnce unless i look at the battery meter and turn them on and off to see that each one draws 0.1a if it registers at all. If you think leds are bad then go and spend the money on some good ones.

So there.

BTW, at the boat show yesterday i didn't see any I liked, not the emitters they were using anyway.