Emergency: need traditional Boatlift(?), my 50ft-er sinks without shore-pumps...

I'm glad to hear she is not sunk!

Another thought, Cracknore Hard at Hythe, I think you can see a slipway on Google maps, plus, further along at Hythe Town there is a place that SEEDA have got open as a boat repair facility, I think its the site that the American Palmer Johnson aluminium floating palaces are to be built. There was a press release about it being open but I cant find it now, look on Google maps and take a drive.

Also worth a drive along Hazel Road in Woolston.

Edit - found it, see here
http://www.seeda.co.uk/Enabling_Inf.../Hampshire_&_Isle_of_Wight/Hythe_Marine_Park/
 
Wow, that slipway in Cracknore Hard, Hythe is BIG !! Is that the place the Seeda-folks want to convert? ...then it's gone soon - or did you mean the other place? (Woolston)

Woolston near the Itchen-Bridge I know already from visiting, theres a guy selling good priced colour-overstocks and anodes. The rest of the yard is a quite spoky place, very dirty and unsave like it seemed. The slipway on the left is not in use any more, the slipway on the right belongs to the other yard, who has no big trolley and no space to store a boat that big.

But I call the Cracknore Hard-people, lets see. It seems there will be no way without a "sea-journey" for us. (means outside Portsmouth-Harbour)

Thanks
 
Cracknore Hard is one place.

The SEEDA place is further along, thats the link I gave.

You might also try the Foulkes Brothers at the Chandlery Barge, Blundell Lane, Burseldon. I think they'll say no on the basis of the yard having enough old junk already! There is one similar size MFV there being rebuilt already.
 
It sounds like your boat has seen better days, if you are thinking she needs sheathing because she is so far gone that it cant be done properly, you need to have a long hard logical think about what to do. Sheathing a big boat like an MFV in GRP is out of the question as it will cost you shed loads to put enough on to do any good. Ferro sheathing is an option but you have to get it out somewhere where it can be done & how much will a yard charge for lifting & storage on the south coast? In either case it will keep on rotting inside its overcoat & the sheer weight of the thing will mean it is structurally weak.
I have seen several similar boats come to grief, one a 50 ft MFV broke its back & sank when it was being manoevred into a mud berth & got stuck.
Another similar boat sank in front of a tidal barrier & started to break up, the owner in a desparate attempt to refloat it put a 24 man liferaft inside & pulled the rip cord, it worked for about 30 seconds before the liferaft pushed the sides out. The PLA broke it up & the owner got a huge bill.
 
I agree with Kieth 66.

If a boat can't stand a stropped lift its either due for a complete rebuild, or dismantling.
Sheathing in ferro or GRP is a waste of time, effort and materials. If you do do this bear in mind it will have no resale value, and will be fit only for a house boat. There are seaworthy MFV's around for a fraction of the cost of a big rebuild, so unless the boat is historically significant, the most beautiful boat you have ever seen, or has some other reason for existing then save yourself tens of thousands of pounds and sell the gear and break the bugger up!
Unless you can make it strong enough to go to sea in a gale then you are, to be frank, wasting your time.
Sorry to be brutal, but I have seen this situation many times before:-(
 
Seanick said:
I agree with Kieth 66.

If a boat can't stand a stropped lift its either due for a complete rebuild, or dismantling.
Sheathing in ferro or GRP is a waste of time, effort and materials. If you do do this bear in mind it will have no resale value, and will be fit only for a house boat. There are seaworthy MFV's around for a fraction of the cost of a big rebuild, so unless the boat is historically significant, the most beautiful boat you have ever seen, or has some other reason for existing then save yourself tens of thousands of pounds and sell the gear and break the bugger up!
Unless you can make it strong enough to go to sea in a gale then you are, to be frank, wasting your time.
Sorry to be brutal, but I have seen this situation many times before:-(
Click to expand...

Wise words.
 
Hi back to Seanick and Keith-66:

The state of the boat is NOT like in the cases you mentioned - slipping instead of lifting would be just a much less stress to an old hull-structure...what would you do if standing before a decision "slipping or lifting": just try it, or first search other ways of getting it out? In the old days, when these boats were designed, they where never made for beeing lifted.

But I understood what you wanted to say. To the costs - I don't think itmust necessarily be very high: I got quotes for this boat lifting out/in 470 Pound, storage/monthly 170. That is cheaper than in the water. And sheating (yes, ferro-cement-sheating, not epoxy) is also a cost efective way of having an older hull done up.

Reselling-value? well, it would be one at least, compared to a leking hull. And if not seagoing anymore, houseboats are quite searched in england or elsewhere these days, especially on a reasonable price and if its pretty and with lots of space.

I know, that a LOT boats like this are scrapped, burned or beached to rot, but hey guys, aren't we in a classic-boat-forum? I know of boats that worse you described, and it's a horror to see this. Again, I understand what you said about "wrecks" , but mine is far from something "breaking off" or disintegrating, we are just talking about a big boat with hard-to-access leaks between the tides and the idea of getting it out to sheat it.

PS: ...and I would really like to know if it's possible to change the title-line of a thread :O) ...the "emergency" is really too "yellow-page-like" ...or should I start a new one with all the prices, quotes and responses of the boatyards, would be a useful thread for future informations?
 
woodenMFV said:
Hi back to Seanick and Keith-66:

The state of the boat is NOT like in the cases you mentioned - slipping instead of lifting would be just a much less stress to an old hull-structure...what would you do if standing before a decision "slipping or lifting": just try it, or first search other ways of getting it out? In the old days, when these boats were designed, they where never made for beeing lifted.

But I understood what you wanted to say. To the costs - I don't think itmust necessarily be very high: I got quotes for this boat lifting out/in 470 Pound, storage/monthly 170. That is cheaper than in the water. And sheating (yes, ferro-cement-sheating, not epoxy) is also a cost efective way of having an older hull done up.

Reselling-value? well, it would be one at least, compared to a leking hull. And if not seagoing anymore, houseboats are quite searched in england or elsewhere these days, especially on a reasonable price and if its pretty and with lots of space.

I know, that a LOT boats like this are scrapped, burned or beached to rot, but hey guys, aren't we in a classic-boat-forum? I know of boats that worse you described, and it's a horror to see this. Again, I understand what you said about "wrecks" , but mine is far from something "breaking off" or disintegrating, we are just talking about a big boat with hard-to-access leaks between the tides and the idea of getting it out to sheat it.

PS: ...and I would really like to know if it's possible to change the title-line of a thread :O) ...the "emergency" is really too "yellow-page-like" ...or should I start a new one with all the prices, quotes and responses of the boatyards, would be a useful thread for future informations?
Click to expand...
these boats were made to be lifted off a wave , you have no idea how strong a boat needs to be to go to sea
 
peter radclyffe said:
these boats were made to be lifted off a wave , you have no idea how strong a boat needs to be to go to sea
Click to expand...

Agree. You only have to watch BBC Trawlermen. Some of the footage of 50 footers crashing through massive seas makes you wince.
When a boat is lifted by strops in a hoist it is no worse than travelling in smooth water at hull speed, when the hull is supported by a bow and quarter wave, and not a lot in between.


The only places you may get problems is where the strops load the planking at the turn of the bilge. This may highlight any defects, giving you time to rectify them before getting caught out in a gale or overfalls........

The slipway you are after is a 'Railway slip'. However, once hauled out, you are on it and no-one else can use it. Therefore time spent on such slips is usually restricted and expensive, so I suggest you have materials and a large wodge of cash ready before you start.
When I used to run such a slip in Chichester Harbour (no longer there), we had a few large boats which would droop over the ends of the cradle, or worse, hogged boats that would straighten up when on the cradle!!

You can fix almost any leak between tides with a tingle of lead, copper or acrylic canvas, some mastic and a handfull of tacks.You may just need a bit af caulking and stopping.In your shoes I would dry out alongside a quay and have a look. Many years ago I helped change a length of plank alongside a quay and between tides on a Pilot cutter called Dolphin-yes the one in Classic Boat!
And no, I would not want to do it again!
 
Last edited:
Seanick;2297504 When a boat is lifted by strops in a hoist it is no worse than travelling in smooth water at hull speed said:
I'm sorry , but I cannot agree with that. Very rough figures:

Boat in slings has its mass supported by about 60 sq ft of webbing (two slings, say 18" wide, each with a contact area of 20 ft)

Boat in water has an underwater surface area of 50 x 6 ft each side, so say 600 sq ft.

So loading in slings is 30tons/60sqft = 0.5 tons/sqft
and afloat is 30tons/600sqft = 0.05tons/sqft.

A bit simplistic but given the description of the vessel's condition, I can understand why the yard abandoned the attempt to lift her out.


FWIW sheathing in ferro will add about 9600 lbs weight to the vessel (re-inforced concrete at 150lbs/cuft, and he will need about 1000sqft coverage at 2" depth). What that will do to the waterline and the metacentric height is looking a bit sad.
Click to expand...
 
If the yard refused to lift her out halfway through trying you can bet there was a very good reason. Call it experience, knowledge or whatever. They thought it would go pear shaped.
Time to take of the rose tinted specs.
 
sarabande said:
I'm sorry , but I cannot agree with that. Very rough figures:

Boat in slings has its mass supported by about 60 sq ft of webbing (two slings, say 18" wide, each with a contact area of 20 ft)

Boat in water has an underwater surface area of 50 x 6 ft each side, so say 600 sq ft.

So loading in slings is 30tons/60sqft = 0.5 tons/sqft
and afloat is 30tons/600sqft = 0.05tons/sqft.

A bit simplistic but given the description of the vessel's condition, I can understand why the yard abandoned the attempt to lift her out.


FWIW sheathing in ferro will add about 9600 lbs weight to the vessel (re-inforced concrete at 150lbs/cuft, and he will need about 1000sqft coverage at 2" depth). What that will do to the waterline and the metacentric height is looking a bit sad.
Click to expand...

I agree that my comparison with a boat supported by a bow/stern wave is a bit simplistic, but to be honest, so is your calculation! Most of the weight on the strops is under the keel, and, depending on hull shape, beam etc the strops are being deflected out to the sides and have nothing like the loading on the keel. I have no idea how you really calculate that loading or if there is actually any point. What we do know is that a wooden boat in good nick shows no signs of stress/distortion/damage when lifted, and the ones that do are a bit ropey!
I would guestimate that a half ton per sq/ft is possibly comparable to a large boat, say 20/30 tonner dropping off a wave into a trough while say, beam reaching in a strong breeze??

The reality is, unless its a houseboat, most want a strong vessel. We went aground at the end of last year on The Shrape, just off Cowes. No problem, politley told the lifeboat that came to rescue us that we were absolutley fine and waited for the tide. The point of this tale is that although we went aground in fine weather, when the wash from the deep sea tug hit us and lifted the boat about 3 feet,dropped us on the sand about 3 times, the boat was strong and did not leak a bit. No need for heavy weather to test the boat, and no need to worry either (well I did at the time!) You could try and calculate 18 tons dropping 3 feet onto high density sand at a speed of xxmph, with a keel width of 6" what would be the loading per sq/ft? Tricky and may I say almost impossible to do acurately!
If we had been in a delicate hull that had been sheathed or just kept for calm conditions we would have been in bits.
Remember how quickly the Maria Asumpta broke up when she touched the rocks?
 
fishing boats

I was brought up on the Moray Firth with boats of this tyoe and fished on them. The stresses that we subjected those hulls to don't bear thinking about! That was when they were fitted with 114/152 Gardners--a lot were re-engined with 300+hp for trawling,even more stressful.
The problem was the fastenings were quite often not up to the job ,and in my view any boat of that age that hasn't been renailed is a non-starter---I have a grp boat for a reason.
A seine-netter of that era had a design life of about 25yrs,so I'd be wary of throwing money at it.

Don't get me wrong,wooden boats are beautiful. I just think that wmfv needs to be VERY careful.
 
Seanick said:
Agree. You only have to watch BBC Trawlermen. Some of the footage of 50 footers crashing through massive seas makes you wince.
When a boat is lifted by strops in a hoist it is no worse than travelling in smooth water at hull speed, when the hull is supported by a bow and quarter wave, and not a lot in between.


The only places you may get problems is where the strops load the planking at the turn of the bilge. This may highlight any defects, giving you time to rectify them before getting caught out in a gale or overfalls........

The slipway you are after is a 'Railway slip'. However, once hauled out, you are on it and no-one else can use it. Therefore time spent on such slips is usually restricted and expensive, so I suggest you have materials and a large wodge of cash ready before you start.
When I used to run such a slip in Chichester Harbour (no longer there), we had a few large boats which would droop over the ends of the cradle, or worse, hogged boats that would straighten up when on the cradle!!

You can fix almost any leak between tides with a tingle of lead, copper or acrylic canvas, some mastic and a handfull of tacks.You may just need a bit af caulking and stopping.In your shoes I would dry out alongside a quay and have a look. Many years ago I helped change a length of plank alongside a quay and between tides on a Pilot cutter called Dolphin-yes the one in Classic Boat!
And no, I would not want to do it again!
Click to expand...
i worked on dolphins deck in gloucester, that boat is weak
 
Seanick said:
I agree that my comparison with a boat supported by a bow/stern wave is a bit simplistic, but to be honest, so is your calculation! Most of the weight on the strops is under the keel, and, depending on hull shape, beam etc the strops are being deflected out to the sides and have nothing like the loading on the keel. I have no idea how you really calculate that loading or if there is actually any point. What we do know is that a wooden boat in good nick shows no signs of stress/distortion/damage when lifted, and the ones that do are a bit ropey!
I would guestimate that a half ton per sq/ft is possibly comparable to a large boat, say 20/30 tonner dropping off a wave into a trough while say, beam reaching in a strong breeze??

The reality is, unless its a houseboat, most want a strong vessel. We went aground at the end of last year on The Shrape, just off Cowes. No problem, politley told the lifeboat that came to rescue us that we were absolutley fine and waited for the tide. The point of this tale is that although we went aground in fine weather, when the wash from the deep sea tug hit us and lifted the boat about 3 feet,dropped us on the sand about 3 times, the boat was strong and did not leak a bit. No need for heavy weather to test the boat, and no need to worry either (well I did at the time!) You could try and calculate 18 tons dropping 3 feet onto high density sand at a speed of xxmph, with a keel width of 6" what would be the loading per sq/ft? Tricky and may I say almost impossible to do acurately!
If we had been in a delicate hull that had been sheathed or just kept for calm conditions we would have been in bits.
Remember how quickly the Maria Asumpta broke up when she touched the rocks?
Click to expand...
yeah, in the dingle botyard they put a steel kelson in an old trawler, at one stage they were jacking her up & accidently picked the whole boat up on one jack, she didnt bend, thats more like the strength thats needed to go to sea, tho its uncommon
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top