Emergency inner forestay options

[laika]

Thanks for all the excellent replies: there's a lot here for me to digest and I'll take a look at dslittle's setup this weekend (if you're about). KevinT1 that looks like a nice bit of kit but if you're selling it because it's not hefty enough for your heavy 11.3m boat it'll probably not work for my heavy 12.3m boat

I hadn't considered mast flex. I certainly don't want to be mucking about with runners: too much extra string. I have a single spreader masthead rig with the lowers slightly aft.

If 8mm wire is needed that makes me additionally worry about reinforcement of the deck. The traditional route seems to be taking a strop from under the deck fitting to the stem: complication I'd rather avoid. A couple of people (this rigger included) have advised me that I should be ok with additional reinforcement (some extra glass and a big metal plate).

Thanks again to all: much to contemplate here.

 

[jwilson]

My removable inner forestay is one size smaller wire than the main forestay, and terminates about 3 feet above the new foredeck strongpoint with just a hard eye to which is tied a length of light line, which is used to tie it back to the shroud chainplates. If the wire is longer you have trouble tidying it away for the 99.995% of the time that it's not in use.

In use a strong 4:1 rope/blocks tackle is snapshackled on and tensioned. You can add tension to the fall with the anchor windlass drum if needed, but in practice a good heave seems enough to get adequate tension. On the present boat I have only tested it with storm jib in F5-6, but I have sailed many hours in the past in survival conditions in a similar sized boat under storm jib only and you simply don't point so high that you need an ultra-taut luff. The stay is there mainly to control the hanked-on luff of the sail whilst hoisting....

If I was kitting out a boat for regular deliberate use in extreme conditions a furler gear for the storm jib would be a nice touch, you could set it up early and have all control in the cockpit, but it is completely OTT for most normal sailing. When I did have to set a storm jib in anger it was crawl to the foredeck towing the sailbag, hank it on, lose the bag, crawl to the mast and hoist, and crawl back to the cockpit, all clipped on of course. This was after several serious knockdowns including one complete inversion whilst running under bare poles. Story in recent editions of 'Heavy Weather Sailing'. The storm jib let us actively sail, and we had no further knockdowns. On a close reach you can bear away to try to avoid bigger breakers and if you can't dodge them luff into them. Beam on gets you rolled, downwind risks pitchpoling or vast broaches.

There was some overhead footage from a helicopter during a Sydney-Hobart showing a racing yacht survival sailing under storm jib only - the interesting bit being the amount of leeway made and the angles sailed.

 

[Martin_J]

From memory, my inner forestay uses this Wichard 5585 fitting at the lower end...
http://www.nauticexpo.com/boat-manufacturer/graduated-turnbuckle-27959.html
Suitable for 7/8/9mm forestays.
I'm sure my inner forestay is 8mm and my main rigging has both 10mm and 8mm shrouds (Moody s38).
Wichard do a similar fitting for 10mm and bigger rigging as you will see in their catalogue (link from above) on page 9-10.

What is great about it is the adjustable range (max to min) so the fitting can stay on the stay (therefore no pins to lose) and either clip to the foredeck or to the side deck near the shroud plates when not needed.

The storage eye on the side deck is stiffened in a similar fashion to the foredeck attachment point in case crew decide to tension the stay in the stowage position!

 

[KevinT1]

From memory, my inner forestay uses this Wichard 5585 fitting at the lower end...
http://www.nauticexpo.com/boat-manufacturer/graduated-turnbuckle-27959.html
Suitable for 7/8/9mm forestays.
I'm sure my inner forestay is 8mm and my main rigging has both 10mm and 8mm shrouds (Moody s38).
Wichard do a similar fitting for 10mm and bigger rigging as you will see in their catalogue (link from above) on page 9-10.

What is great about it is the adjustable range (max to min) so the fitting can stay on the stay (therefore no pins to lose) and either clip to the foredeck or to the side deck near the shroud plates when not needed.

The storage eye on the side deck is stiffened in a similar fashion to the foredeck attachment point in case crew decide to tension the stay in the stowage position!

The Wichard 5585 is the one I went with - here's a picture of the fitting through the foredeck and down to the stem head fitting

Only caveat - haven't used it in anger, but the picture shows the same arrangement on other HR36s

KevinView attachment 48925View attachment 48926

 

[knuterikt]

The traditional route seems to be taking a strop from under the deck fitting to the stem: complication I'd rather avoid. A couple of people (this rigger included) have advised me that I should be ok with additional reinforcement (some extra glass and a big metal plate).

It depends on how far from the bow it's installed, closer to the bow = stiffer deck.

The Wichard 5585 is the one I went with - here's a picture of the fitting through the foredeck and down to the stem head fitting

Only caveat - haven't used it in anger, but the picture shows the same arrangement on other HR36s

KevinView attachment 48925View attachment 48926

Mine is installed in the same location but different design.
Don't steal much room inside anchor locker.

 

[wrr]

I think that some of the confusion may relate to what is meant by a "Highfield lever" and to the intended function of the lazy inner forestay. I have seen a deck-mounted Highfield lever on a 70 footer, so size is not an issue. However, on my boat I have an 8mm. lazy inner forestay that is tensioned by an inner forestay lever, which is a combined over-centre lever and rigging screw device. I understand that these are not made for wire above 8mm and that their breaking strain is about 4 1/4 tons.

If the inner forestay is solely for flying a storm jib, an experienced sailmaker should be able to advise on the luff loading and the wire required. In the absence of running backstays, you may not want it to be as strong as the rest of your rigging and it could potentially wreck the mast Were it to be used to replace a parted forestay, given that it attaches below the standing backstays ( I have two), I would want to back it up with a tensioned spinnaker halyard, run to the anchor windlass. For these reasons, I would support the view that a lesser wire diameter than the standing forestay may be acceptable.