Ellen – Hero or Stunt Act ?

Re: Message for alec and his like...

Alec,

There is no possible way you have handled a boat -any boat- singlehanded for any time at all.

If you had, you would not have even raised this discussion. The support Ellen had was words only - nothing to do with really surviving a storm.

In my experience, most people raising these kind of questions are failed macho men who abhor the idea of a woman doing something they only dream of doing.

Good luck to you -you must need it- and I hope you hate reading about people praising Ellen. You may have to get used to it old boy!
 
Totally with you on this.

I tried to make a similar point to this, not as well, and got a virtual kicking for it by the few. So be it.

W
 
I am not an experienced sailor therefore I cannot honestly evaluate Ellen's achievement, even though the accolades are impressive. The thing that hits a chord with me is the reference to today's technology and gizmos. In another professional sport, golf, purists are bemoaning the effect of hi-tech gear, balls, etc., which allows otherwise mediocre players to become multi-millionaires and makes classic courses obsolete. Some of these household names would not be fit to carry the clubs for the likes of Cotton, Hogan, Snead, Player and Nicklaus. Similarly, with all the technology now available to sailors it seems basic skills are not necessary anymore if one wants to sail across oceans.
 
Re: Message for alec and his like...

I think the difficulty I have is the apparant wild hero worship of Ellen and which seems to extend to not tolerating any criticism or questioning comment on her achievement

It would seem to me that many do not realise that she is just another in the stream of highly achieving yachtsmen (er yachtspersons, for the PC ones out there) over the years. I get the impression that many are either too young, to new to sailing or unknowledgeable of sailing history to know of or remember the likes of, and just limiting ourselves to women solo sailors, Ann Davison (first woman to make a solo ocean crossing), Naomi James (who was also made a dame, holder of previous solo around world record, although it ended up she did it with a stop due to repairs being needed), Kay Cottee (first woman to sail solo non stop around the world), Catherine Chabaud (first woman to complete a Vendee Globe), etc.

Of course there are a whole fleet of highly achieving non solo women sailors plus an even bigger fleet of men sailors and I see her achievement as just being another in that field of competent people, rather than some sort of heroine deserving hero worship.

Ellen is just one of many to hold the solo around the world record (and the second woman to do so) and will only do so for a moment in time. I admire her achievement but I cannot help feeling that the outright hero worship that seems to be evident is due to either forumites not knowing their sailing history, she is not the first and will not be the last, or else have sucumbed to the very competent publicity machine of her sponsors and management.

John
 
Re: Cobblers

[ QUOTE ]
Sadly another appalling reply by a poster who has misses the point and only wishes to strut his ego without making an attempt to address the points that others seem to have no trouble with.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not strutting any ego at all. I'm not the one trying to make out from the comfort of a nice warm armchair that it could all have been done by a 3 month trainee chimp in a sort of sail it by numbers computer game.

I'm sorry if you found my reply apalling but I can assure you I did not miss the point at all and I trust very sincerely that you did not miss my point either.

By the way, it might help us all to understand where you are coming from if you were to fill in some detail on your bio.
 
Re: Message for alec and his like...

Hi John

Who can argue with history! The difference with this record is that there was absolutely no margin for error to keep that beast tracking flat out 24/7 and the right way up. The boat was designed to break the 90 day record and then had to go nearer to 20 days better because the record fell before Team Ellen got underway. Nigel Irens the designer thought the record was still a possible but very difficult indeed and B & Q was a smaller boat.

But to suggest that anyone halfway competent could be trained to do it in 3 months by being told what to do by radiophone is either a deliberate troll or remarkedly stupid. I though my reply was correct for either of these possibilities!

Have you had summer yet? Watched the NZ Open golf earlier today on TV, won by Niclas Fasst, looked a nice course and a few boats were about in the backgound too.

Robin
 
Is it a stunt...?

On a cold Sunday night -Oceans 11 has finished and I need to go to my bed -for 6 or 7 hours sleep- not 15 minutes, I'd just like to say the following.

1. The 'hero worship' is not based on following the media. There has been plenty of media, from the Financial Times down, that has questioned her achievement. We choose to make our own opinions thank you.

2. There have been stars of sailing who have equally been praised, but at their moment of achievement in much smaller circles, or circles less able to communicate their views. Chichester or Knox-Johnston did not have the advantage of instant global communication via internet websites to spread the word. RT McMullen ('Down Channel') in 1870, sailing -singlehanded- a 16.5 ton cutter 6,000 statute miles most likely had a dozen or two people praising his astonishing feats. Had they had the internet, they would also have had a far greater following... Anyone from here on in will receive this kind of adulation. It is a feature of this 21st century world and it should, in my opinion, be welcomed.

3. I am happy to entertain opinions different to my own. But don't expect me not to vigorously defend my own views - especially when I have the strong sense that those doing down Ellen's achievement in this scenario are not the folk I personally would choose as a role models for my children.

As usual, it is the vast 'silent' majority who really decide this. And I know which side they are on.
 
Re: Message for alec and his like...

The difference with this record is that there was absolutely no margin for error to keep that beast tracking flat out 24/7 and the right way up.

Hi Robin

I seem to remember the same claims for Suhaili (just to take a very different boat in both era and type) - the world moves on, Suhaili went around more than 35 years ago. I suspect that back then few imagined that repeated 70 -80 days around the world sailing voyages would become possible. I suspect that in 35 years time B&Q will be regarded as a dog in comparison to contemporary go fast machines and I have no doubt that the solo around the world record will be broken many times before then - the number of times limited only by the availability of sponsors, not by the availability of competent enough sailors of which there are many.

Quote from the dust cover of K-J's A World of My Own, "By every standard it was an incredible adventure, perhaps the last great uncomputerised journey left to man, a feat of adventure and seamanship which will be unsurpassed, unforgotten, as long as there are men to dare the sea."

I suspect many think the same of Ellen's voyage but, of course, hers was a computerised journey undertaken by a woman - perhaps that is the only difference.

{Edit: 1996-1997 Vendee Globe, of 16 competitors 4 retired due to capsizing and one boat with skipper was lost - maybe B&Q is safe in comparison?}

John
 
Re: Is it a stunt...?

As usual, it is the vast 'silent' majority who really decide this. And I know which side they are on.

Errrrr, keep things in perspective. There are close on 6.5 billion people in the world. What percentage of them do you think would know who she was?

John
 
I think many could and more could not.

But I do not think a 6ft male would get the sponsorship or notoriety that she has been fortunate enough to build. Therefore, to break records now, you have to have something more than just the personal ability to actually go out and do it.

She is obviously an excellent sailor, but from a companies viewpoint, she is an excellent money generator. 5'2", 28yr old Woman. It is like a PR mans wet dream.
 
Alec

Why do you reject her?
She saw a record and thought she could bring it home to Britain.
She went out and did it.

The fact is that anyone that has been Cold, Wet, Tired, Afraid, and has been visited while at sea can relate to her trip and will give support through respect.

Unfortunately this is not the silent majority that look more to public relations which to be fair she is not good at.

But to say technology can give you wave height in the Southern Ocean is the daftest thing I have ever heard in my life.


…………………….
sorry, I just posted all over your thread
 
Re: Cobblers

Can i sail? No. But i do know what it's like to have been a mere two days without sleep, in an extreme offshore environment, trying to make decisions, trying to keep warm, trying to decipher what in your mind is reality and what is not, and wanting to be anywhere else in the world.

Two months of that!! I know that there are a lot of very experienced sailors here, and i may be wrong, but from what i do know of people and of this world is that very, very few would manage to do what Ellen has just done. Physically, mentally or emotionally. This is regardless of what degree of backup they have, save a frigate sailing right next to them.

Does anyone here honestly doubt that she is an extraordinary PERSON.

Just my thruppence.

Rob.
 
Re: Message for alec and his like...

[ QUOTE ]
I think the difficulty I have is the apparant wild hero worship of Ellen and which seems to extend to not tolerating any criticism or questioning comment on her achievement

Ellen is just one of many to hold the solo around the world record (and the second woman to do so) and will only do so for a moment in time. I admire her achievement but I cannot help feeling that the outright hero worship that seems to be evident is due to either forumites not knowing their sailing history, she is not the first and will not be the last, or else have sucumbed to the very competent publicity machine of her sponsors and management.

John

[/ QUOTE ]

Like you, John, I admire what Ellen has done but I've no desire to place her on a pedestal. It's hard to see how sailing wasn't even worth 15 minutes a day of good footage and informed commentary during the Olympics and then it jumped to "hold the front page" status with every columnist making grossly ill-informed comments. The Daily Mail proclaimed her "The World's Greatest", usually an accolade only bestowed on its own writers.

But I dislike the "tall poppy" syndrome even more than I loath the analysis by "instant experts". Any fool could not have done what she accomplished.
 
Re: Cobblers

Some of what you say may be true BUT remember she cicumnavigated Britain solo with no outside help in a 21' Corribee - no mean achievement!
 
Re: Cobblers

BUT remember she cicumnavigated Britain solo with no outside help in a 21' Corribee - no mean achievement!

So you must be full of far more admiration for Robin Lee Graham who set out in 1965 at age 16 years and circumnavigated THE WORLD solo in a 24 foot sail boat without any outside help (he claims to have left with $40)?

And the younger ones that have circumnavigated alone since?

John
 
Re: Cobblers

John

Although you have said something positive which I appreciate regarding speed and waves you let yourself down by encouraging others to be aggressive and disrespectful to another poster because he happens to have another point of view.

It is ironic that these same people who often deplore Political Correctness on this forum choose to use it themselves in the form of anger and aggression with someone who raises a few questions that may be worth discussing in the form of bullying . Surely it cannot be that bad as others have made comments in a respectful and intelligent way . which is surely how we should react.

What worries me about this forum is that many people are put off posting because of this very fact i.e
name calling , aggression etc.. It is unlikely now that this thread will develop because of this now as who wants to be on the end of abuse ?



Alec
 
Re: It\'s a stunt.

But it requires no less courage, application, determination or intelligence to achieve the objective.

Anyone who selects difficult objectives, publicises them and then gets the job done is worthy of respect. Regardless of whether you value the objective in it's self.

Of course there's a lot of old b*****x talked about this kind of thing and the type of people who attempt such things. They are not superhero's. They are driven people not affraid to suffer to achieve. They may have a deep love of what they do but not always. They will have trained and learnt to adapt to a way of life that gets them through. They have learnt to overcome risks and deprivations. You can find these people in many walks of life. They often get to the top.

The usage of technologies can be a burden as well as a boon. I doubt if Ellen thought she'd spend so much of her time resource rebuilding a generator. There is an sublime irony in the idea that a sailing record attempt might founder over a malfunctioning engine.

As to our sailing forefarthers, they may well wonder at the application of so much energy and resource for a row of numbers in a book. But that would be to misunderstand modern adventure. In this service orientated world, were we hire in gardeners or dog groomers or party organizers, it's no surprise that a successful business can be based on being a hired adventurer. The pays good too.
 
For me personally I think hero(ine). I was lucky enough to sail once on Yacht Maiden for a short passage and it was this experience (along with following the exploits of Tracy Edwards and crew) that got me hooked on sailing. There must be countless children who are forming their dreams / aspirations purely on Ellen's exploits. Pete Goss is another who has inspired me, through his exploits in the Vendee and with Team Phillips.

Without the funding from the likes of Kingfisher / Orange etc boat development would not have come on so far. I'd be willing to bet Kingfisher wasn't actively looking at Yachting as a sport to sponsor before Ellen approached them so the fact that they wanted to be associated with her rather than the sport speaks volumes for the kind of person she is and demonstrates her single mindedness when it comes to achieving her goals.
 
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