Electronics - Too Expensive?

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Pete In The East

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I've been looking for a plotter for my boat and am a bit alarmed by the high prices.

I was looking into buying an older boat earlier in the year, which had been fitted with a Garmin 8010 10" plotter and radar.

I later saw the invoice which was dated Jan 09. It included all of the above, a G2 Vison UK chart, cables and brackets, total was a shade under £1700!

Having observed prices over the last few months, i'd get just the plotter for this kind of money.

If you look at domestic electronics, the general trend in pricing is always downwards.

So why are boat electronics so expensive? Why the big hike in prices?

Come to think of it, why is everything to do with boats so expensive?

We most of us are just normal people with average incomes, so can someone please explain?
 
it isn't - and they aren't

I have units that were poor spec and high price when they came out, and are now 'obsolite'. otoh they still work fine.

But if I wanted to have the latest 10" screen it's got to cost money - 10 years ago you couldn't get a 10" screen for any money!

Personally I have 6 'old' screens at the helm - they all do the job fine and still work as spec. I like the fact that I could 'upgrade' to a single 10" screen, have interfaces for everything from AIS to GPS, trim tabs to transducers etc etc

It's easy to prove that they are cheaper now than at some point, but impossible to illustrate it across all variables and time because of currency and competitive pricing issues. Then there's where it's bought because distribution margins have varied hugely over the last 20 years.
 
Yes they are , how much would this speedo cost if it was for a boat , and remeber the only thing that needs changed is the pickup method ,
http://direct.asda.com/12-Function-Speedometer/000929058,default,pd.html#specificationContent

there are car gps units that are running windows Ce in the background , find a cheap or free ce program to read cm93 maps and you have a 70 quid chart plotter ,

the sooner opencpn is ported to andriod , and its happening just now , and google earth plugins are sorted out , the better .
 
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Worldwide market for a TV, iPad or mobile phone? Millions to Billions

Worldwide market for chart plotter? 10000 to 200000?

it's a very simple principle called supply and demand.:p

Your iPad, cheap laptop or mobile phone are not yet ruggedised ( a new ruggedised laptop could set you back £3000 - more expensive than a chart plotter ) and rarely are they sunlight readable. Stick them at the helm and they become increasingly unfit-for-purpose.
 
nimbusgb said:
Your iPad, cheap laptop or mobile phone are not yet ruggedised ( a new ruggedised laptop could set you back £3000 - more expensive than a chart plotter ) and rarely are they sunlight readable. Stick them at the helm and they become increasingly unfit-for-purpose.
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So don't follow yachty fashion and stick them at the helm. Simples.

In the age before electronics, no-one in their right mind would have tried reading a paper chart or plotting a course at the helm of an open cockpit - so why has it become de rigueur these days ?

If you're rich, then there's no problem - but if you're not, then buy equipment which is perfectly good enough for the job but will not require you to take out a second mortgage - then operate that equipment under appropriate conditions. It really isn't rocket science - just requires opting out from that queue for the cliff-edge with the rest of the lemmings .. aka the 'dedicated followers of fashion'.
 
I paid £250 quid for a Dinghy Decca unit in 1989.
It told me little, and was not very reliable.

If you assume a doubling of price every 7 years, that would be close to being over 2 grand now.

I think you ought to look at a smaller unit.

I just bought a backup GPS Garmin 152H for well under 200 quid, and it does lots, although with a display of mp points rahter than charts.

If you want a 12 inch plotter with Radar potential, and plenty of functionality, buy the Standard Horizon CP500. Around 1100 quid all in.
 
My first bit of real electronics beyond the Seafarer echosounder and Seafix RDF was a Decca Set. Originally only available on rental to commercial vessels at very inflated rates from Decca, the first yottie sets that computed lat/long instead of needing Decca overlay charts cost over £750. I bought mine in the late 1970s so lord knows what £750 (the discount price and sans VAT) would be in today's money but it represented 7.5% of what I paid for the boat it was fitted on!

Today you can buy plotters for the cost of a GPS set, the real expense comes from the chart cartridges.

A 10" plotter is a pricey add on to a small boat and it will also have other downsides like the power consumption. We have two 10" plotters on our new motor yacht, but then that is a 47ft power boat with unlimited power underway. On our previous 41ft sailing boat we had a 5" Navman plotter in the cockpit and a 6" one at the chart table which which were more than adequate.
 
Many folks think they NEED a chartplotter. A handheld GPS, like a Garmin GPSMap76Cx is simply a small chartplotter. Used to be over $350US, now less than half of that. Depending on your situation, I'm not sure one nreally "needs" more than that.

Wants and needs are two different things.

Then, there are always the boat show salespeople.:eek:
 
electrosys said:
In the age before electronics, no-one in their right mind would have tried reading a paper chart or plotting a course at the helm of an open cockpit - so why has it become de rigueur these days ?
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Because it's now possible.

Doing traditional chartwork is more or less impossible in the cockpit except on very calm days, so of course no-one did it. You might as well ask why nobody travelled directly to windward before engines were available.

(Personally I prefer to work with charts (perhaps I haven't tried a good (ie expensive) enough plotter) and have a well-appointed chart table to do it from.)

Pete
 
electrosys said:
In the age before electronics, no-one in their right mind would have tried reading a paper chart or plotting a course at the helm of an open cockpit - so why has it become de rigueur these days ?
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I'm quite happy to do my passage planning at the dinette table (there aren't many 24 footers with a dedicated chart table), but I'd be more likely to do it beforehand at home.

However, I'd be interested to know how people in their right minds managed difficult bits of pilotage without reading a chart at the helm of an open cockpit. Unless I know my way so well there's no possibility of forgetting a hard bit within reach of my keels or I'm practically out of sight of land, the chart's always to hand in the cockpit.
 
Anything boaty related is more expensive than it should be because the market lacks real competition and a more discerning customer base, IMHO. In my experience, customer service, too, is generally very poor.

The car industry and consumer goods have both benefited significantly by having to compete to win business.

I invested about £7k on new electronics for my boat last year. I sent the same spec, comprising different products of different makes, to a number of chandleries and, surprise surprise, there was very little difference in any of their quotes. They don't need to work hard enough to win business. Granted that marine-specific equipment will cost slightly more than domestic (albeit in this digital age most products are a derivative of something else) due to the volume effect.

I believe that the leisure marine market clsoely resembles Arthur Daley of the 1970's. I don't see the Datsun Cherry on the horizon to improve matters in the foreseeable future so our options are pay-up or shut-up :mad:
 
davidjackson said:
I invested about £7k on new electronics for my boat last year. I sent the same spec, comprising different products of different makes, to a number of chandleries and, surprise surprise, there was very little difference in any of their quotes. They don't need to work hard enough to win business. Granted that marine-specific equipment will cost slightly more than domestic (albeit in this digital age most products are a derivative of something else) due to the volume effect.
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That is hardly surprising as they will all have to pay similar prices from the manufacturer and will have similar costs and profit expectations. If one is substantially less than the others then you have to ask why? Maybe they are not interested in your "business" if they have to forgo their profit to get it.
 
Stu Jackson said:
Many folks think they NEED a chartplotter. A handheld GPS .... really "needs" more than that. ..... Wants and needs are two different things. .......
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I would agree with your needs and wants statement but would refine it a bit more. The need is driven by the fact that sailing is a leisure pursuit and sailors, in general terms, don't want to navigate traditionally. The act of switching on a chart plotter and instantly knowing where you are is very enticing and contributes to the leisure experience quite significantly through its convenience.

I can accept the argument that market size and development costs keep the price up more than the leisure premium. However, the monied are prepared to pay for their leisure and that fact is not lost on those who market the electronic products.
 
Tranona said:
That is hardly surprising as they will all have to pay similar prices from the manufacturer and will have similar costs and profit expectations. If one is substantially less than the others then you have to ask why? Maybe they are not interested in your "business" if they have to forgo their profit to get it.
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Do you really believe that? You don't think that a larger business has better buying power or that another specialises in a particular make so sells more. You don't think that a larger business needs to recover less fixed overhead allocation from each sale.

I'm all in favour of one of the big supermarkets going into marine chandlery. There's still room for the corner shop, just look at how the Nicer (intentionally incorrect spelling) chain of independants have come together to compete.

I'm happy that we don't agree and I'm happy to be called a cynic but the industry needs to pull its socks up, INHO :)
 
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