Electronic ignition?

[pmagowan]

My boat has a standard little perspex flap in the cockpit behind which is an ignition and a set of keys. The keys and the ignition get rusty from exposure to the atmosphere and I was wonder if any boats use electronic ignition or if it is potentially a good idea. For example, most boats have some sort of instrument panel directly in front of the helm with a chartplotter etc but could you not have a 'button' on the screen that you use to start the engine. That way all the engine electrics can be kept in a sealed, controlled environment. I know some people are of the KISS attitude but I like integration with a KISS backup. What does the panel think about the idea (I am considering a raspberry pi or similar with arduino microcontrollers to run and monitor various functions so this is to integrate with that).

 

[prv]

When you say "ignition", I think you mean "switch". Obviously you can use any kind of switch you like; a waterproof one would be a good idea in a cockpit.

It would certainly be feasible to use a relay driven by some kind of computer, but I can't see what the benefit would be. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should

Pete

 

[pmagowan]

I suppose the benefit would be the integration, therefore not requiring other 'bits' in the cockpit. It also allows you to put all the sensitive stuff inside in the best environment for it. I plan on having an engine monitoring system which would display on a MFD at the helm and I was just thinking why not have a start button there also. Of course it is a simple matter to have the traditional start switch down below also for if there is any failure of the electronics. It is probably not really neccessary but I was wondering why not. I will have a touch screen with engine temps, fuel consumption, revs, filter pressures etc as well as nmea data, weather, tides, multimedia etc

 

[30boat]

When I did my Fulmar up I removed the old Bukh panel from the cockpit and installed it inside the companionway.it's only 20cms away from where it used to be but now it's protected from the weather.It's been replaced by the new Beta panel since.

 

[prv]

I suppose the benefit would be the integration, therefore not requiring other 'bits' in the cockpit. It also allows you to put all the sensitive stuff inside in the best environment for it.

There's very little "sensitive stuff" in a traditional engine panel - at least not stuff that doesn't need to be there. I dismantled the Yanmar panel in Kindred Spirit and assembled most of the parts into my own one. The only components were an on/off switch (a key switch in the original, which I replaced with a normal rotary one), a start button, a buzzer, three lights, and two or three small diodes used to allow the separate warning circuits to share the one buzzer.

I plan on having an engine monitoring system which would display on a MFD at the helm and I was just thinking why not have a start button there also. Of course it is a simple matter to have the traditional start switch down below also for if there is any failure of the electronics. It is probably not really neccessary but I was wondering why not.

There isn't any compelling reason not to, if you want. I just wouldn't because I don't see any advantage and I do see some minor downsides.

A duplicate panel in the engine bay is useful though, saves a lot of running up and down to the cockpit when working on the engine. Doubly so when you have to remove the steps to get at the engine! So you could have your "backup" panel here and the electronic controls on deck.

I will have a touch screen with engine temps, fuel consumption, revs, filter pressures etc as well as nmea data, weather, tides, multimedia etc

Combining everything into one touch-screen panel is great if you're a manufacturer looking to minimise parts count. But for it to work well you need to pay great attention to the UI design, particularly task switching. For all the swiping, paging, pop-ups, and intelligent pre-emption, by far the most effective way to switch tasks is to simply shift your attention to a different physical device.

Pete

 

[Tranona]

Many new engines come with the option of a waterproof control panel. My new Volvo D1 30 has just that. A rubber button you switch the starter circuit on and another button to engage the starter, plus a switch for the glow plugs. Had similar on my old 2030. No key, just an engine circuit master switch in the cabin. You could obviously add a security key into the circuit if you wanted to, but an unnecessary complication. Beta and Nanni, and no doubt Yanmar also offer similar panels as an option.

 

[rob2]

As others have already said, it isn't difficult to design and make a duplicate panel to meet your own requirements using waterproof components and running in parallel with the original which can then be mounted in the protection of the cabin - and away from the risk of foot traffic. The only problem I've had with the original key switch panel, despite it being recessed into the bulkhead, was when my crew kicked it and broke the top of the key off. A set of waterproof industrial push buttons would not have suffered at all from this treatment, but I'd want to retain the key switch for isolation. So decide exactly what functions you want in the cockpit and design to suit (you'll probably want to keep the rev counter and a set of alarm lights to hand. Even if you build a fully functional replacement, eliminating the original, I'd want a key switch in the cabin for security - but also remember that it is usual practice to switch off the system when the engine is not running to prevent discharging the battery and there's no point in having everything to hand except the on/off switch!

Rob.

 

[pmagowan]

I am currently working on the GUI design and I think it should be easy enough to get it good. I plan on using 'widgets' style information so that is can be customised as required. There will be a simple start screen with some generic information such as weather, date time etc. It will also have any alerts and warnings pop up along the bottom. 3 main 'buttons' will take you to all the info you need. One for boat systems (security, fuel, electrics, climate control etc) which will bring up a plan of the boat with each system marked. Another for multimedia which will give access to music, pictures, radio, email etc. And the final one for launching the boat which will bring up engine start, monitoring, fuel, nmea data etc. Since each system will have its own monitoring then it will be easy to customise or get more or less info as required. For instance, on the lauch screen you will be able to see fuel levels but if you 'click' on it you will get the full, detailed fuel montitoring system with levels for each tank, pump and polishing control, fuel line and filter monitoring etc.

I think the key is to get the most useful info displayed but with a clear way to get at additional information. The difficulty will be preventing clashes when trying to run more than one thing at once but I guess that is just about being careful with the design. It is actually quite easy to design it on paper where you simply draw a line to represent the connection between one 'screen' and the other. Then all I need to do is populate the graphics with the appropriate info from the microcontrolers.

 

[prv]

As others have already said, it isn't difficult to design and make a duplicate panel to meet your own requirements using waterproof components and running in parallel with the original

The OP isn't proposing to have any panel at all (except perhaps for a backup one tucked away somewhere). He wants to control it all from a computer, using a touchscreen at the helm.

Even if you build a fully functional replacement, eliminating the original, I'd want a key switch in the cabin for security - but also remember that it is usual practice to switch off the system when the engine is not running to prevent discharging the battery and there's no point in having everything to hand except the on/off switch!

I don't see any need for a key in the cabin, just a switch - assuming the cabin itself is locked when the boat's unattended. Ariam has no keys anywhere in the engine system, and the controls at the binnacle, but with the battery isolator turned off in the cabin the engine cannot be started.

Pete

 

[prv]

It is actually quite easy to design it on paper

It is - but it's a real art (and a whole profession) to design it so that it actually works well in practice

Pete

 

[pmagowan]

It is - but it's a real art (and a whole profession) to design it so that it actually works well in practice

Pete

Yes, but I am going to have a lot of time between sanding the hull!

 

[reeac]

When I did my Fulmar up I removed the old Bukh panel from the cockpit and installed it inside the companionway.it's only 20cms away from where it used to be but now it's protected from the weather.It's been replaced by the new Beta panel since.

Interesting - I did the exact opposite in my Sadler 29 .....moved the engine control panel from inside the cabin to a recessed position on the aft face of the bridgedeck. That way I can start the engine anytime without needing to send a man below and can also read the Rev counter whilst at the helm. I've had no problem with corrosion - the recessed panel has a clear Perspex cover with a gap for access to the switch and a second Perspex cover which slots in place giving complete protection when the boat is moored.

 

[Alpha22]

I have a friend who set up his twin engined mobo with a remote engine start and stop on a wireless key fob relay system from ebay. It was reactively inexpensive.
When mooring up, which he has to do frequently on the river for locks, the first priority is to get lines ashore. The kill the engine. This required an extra trip up and down the ladder at each lock. The same was true in reverse, engine started, then back to the lock side do case off. Again a wasted trip.
He can now start and stop either engine from the key fob. Just a few relays. All the existing switches and controls are untouched.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-12V-4C...589?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item51cf141825

 

[30boat]

Interesting - I did the exact opposite in my Sadler 29 .....moved the engine control panel from inside the cabin to a recessed position on the aft face of the bridgedeck. That way I can start the engine anytime without needing to send a man below and can also read the Rev counter whilst at the helm. I've had no problem with corrosion - the recessed panel has a clear Perspex cover with a gap for access to the switch and a second Perspex cover which slots in place giving complete protection when the boat is moored.

I can start and stop my engine from the cockpit still.

 

[pmagowan]

Considering electronics tend to be more sensitive than standard electrics it would seem counterintuitive but getting a fully waterproof connection to a MFD seems to be a lot easier than the same to an engine switch panel. My panel is pretty grotty since it seems to be made with dissimilar metals, many of which are not ideal in a marine environment. I have redone all the connections with heatshrink etc and spreayed the terminals with a protective electrical isolator spray but I am not convinced. Also, an electronic display can give much better warnings right in front of you to let you know exactly what is going on. I might just give it a go knowing that it would be easy to add a start button if required at a later date. There is nothing much to lose and I have a fail to safe philosophy when it comes to the gadgets.

Having it electronic would also allow me to start and stop my engine from home, over my iphone. I can't honestly think of a reason why I would do this but hey ho. Maybe it would scare criminals if I picked them up on an alarm.

 

[Alpha22]

To fire up an engine from a phone is going to take a lot more tech than just an app on the phone. The starter will need to be able to be triggered from a logic level voltage.... that will need to receive a signal wirelessly from the phone, so will need an interface to either Bluetooth or WiFi. Bluetooth needs pairing so may be clunky and not always work on first arrival at the boat. WiFi will need a base station on the boat that the phone will be connected to, exclusively. This prevents the hone using any other WiFi. OR..... the boat WiFi has to be connected to the internet for the phone to connect to it. Thus requiring another phone or MiFi. BUT when out of range of land based internet....... you wouldn't be able to start your engine.

Assuming an older engine you would then need to update the pull to stop so it too can be controlled digitally.....

This is not a product that is ever going to make it to market... every one would need to be bespoke and require custom install and configuration.....

Now.... on a brand new super yacht with ultra modern fly by wire engines and satellite internet..... it could be a cool add on.

 

[prv]

getting a fully waterproof connection to a MFD seems to be a lot easier than the same to an engine switch panel.

A traditional engine switch-panel is not a monolithic device, though, as I explained in post #5. Yes, the manufacturers often do a poor job of waterproofing them, but it doesn't have to be that way. The Yanmar 2GM20 (and no doubt others) panel is two switches and three lights. So ditch the original panel and wire the same simple circuit using IP67-rated parts. Then you can use it from a metre underwater

Pete

 

[pmagowan]

To fire up an engine from a phone is going to take a lot more tech than just an app on the phone. The starter will need to be able to be triggered from a logic level voltage.... that will need to receive a signal wirelessly from the phone, so will need an interface to either Bluetooth or WiFi. Bluetooth needs pairing so may be clunky and not always work on first arrival at the boat. WiFi will need a base station on the boat that the phone will be connected to, exclusively. This prevents the hone using any other WiFi. OR..... the boat WiFi has to be connected to the internet for the phone to connect to it. Thus requiring another phone or MiFi. BUT when out of range of land based internet....... you wouldn't be able to start your engine.

Assuming an older engine you would then need to update the pull to stop so it too can be controlled digitally.....

This is not a product that is ever going to make it to market... every one would need to be bespoke and require custom install and configuration.....

Now.... on a brand new super yacht with ultra modern fly by wire engines and satellite internet..... it could be a cool add on.

The main system is going to be connected to the internet hence the phone being able to connect to it. The phone will be able to interact both over the internet and through a text message. This allows the boat to contact the phone if, for instance, the bilge alarm goes off or the burglar alarm. Then, through the phone, I can monitor which bilge area is flooded, which pumps are running etc etc. For the burglars I can take a picture of them, speak to them, activate an alarm, immobilise the boat etc. It doesn't take much since the input required to do most of these functions is small, hence sending the boat a text can work.

Other benefits are turning on the heating before you arrive, monitoring frost protection, battery and shore power status, boat being moved/breaking away from mooring, fire/gas/co monitoring, turning on lights to guide you in on the dinghy, fuel polishing etc. I just like a project

 

[Sybarite]

My boat has a standard little perspex flap in the cockpit behind which is an ignition and a set of keys. The keys and the ignition get rusty from exposure to the atmosphere and I was wonder if any boats use electronic ignition or if it is potentially a good idea. For example, most boats have some sort of instrument panel directly in front of the helm with a chartplotter etc but could you not have a 'button' on the screen that you use to start the engine. That way all the engine electrics can be kept in a sealed, controlled environment. I know some people are of the KISS attitude but I like integration with a KISS backup. What does the panel think about the idea (I am considering a raspberry pi or similar with arduino microcontrollers to run and monitor various functions so this is to integrate with that).

On my boat, the key ignition switch was replaced by a button. You can have a cut-off inside the boat.

 

[alan_d]

But if you don't have a key to hang on the seacock handle, how will you remember to open the seacock before starting the engine?