Electronic Flares

[veshengro]

If you are unfortunate enough to have to use distress signals at night, of any description, and air search can be heard in the area, you might consider something like this..in addition...to the kit you would normally carry.
Cyalume or Light Sticks, sometimes called Chem Lights, available via Military Surplus and some.Outdoor Shops.

You can turn the sound down.. I only post it to illustrate how a length of line on the Light Stick makes a good close range signal.
Cheap,safe, glow for hours and easy to stow in a grab bag and both safer and longer lasting than Pyro's for Life Raft use.

I can vouch that from a Helicopter at night an 8 inch Cyalume swung on a length of Paracord is easily visible at well over a mile, although that was over Moorland, not at sea.

 

[Sandy]

If you are unfortunate enough to have to use distress signals at night, of any description, and air search can be heard in the area, you might consider something like this..in addition...to the kit you would normally carry.
Cyalume or Light Sticks, sometimes called Chem Lights, available via Military Surplus and some.Outdoor Shops.

You can turn the sound down.. I only post it to illustrate how a length of line on the Light Stick makes a good close range signal.
Cheap,safe, glow for hours and easy to stow in a grab bag and both safer and longer lasting than Pyro's for Life Raft use.

I can vouch that from a Helicopter at night an 8 inch Cyalume swung on a length of Paracord is easily visible at well over a mile, although that was over Moorland, not at sea.

What's the visibility like in fog and rain? Would you have the strength to swing that above your head after 'relaxing in a lifejacket for three hours'? Your lifejacket should have a strobe light.

I always chuckle when safety equipment is demonstrated in a F3 on calm seas, when in reality it is blowing a hooly, is the height of the monsoon and the clag is down. (F6, torrential rain, visibility 25 meters; in my experience the usual conditions for a mountain rescue shout).

We use those Chem Lights on Mountain Rescue Search Dogs decades ago and they are really useful, but would be lost in a sea.

 

[veshengro]

The Chem lights of decades ago are not the Chem lights of 2023..If a survivor hasn't got the strength to swing a 1.5 oz weight on a string, then he's probably leaving the raft in a body bag anyway.

Visibility obviously not as good as Pyro flare in good or poor weather, but if as I suggested they are used if air search is heard, then I would use a Cyalume rather than light a firework in a rubber raft.

 

[Sandy]

The Chem lights of decades ago are not the Chem lights of 2023..If a survivor hasn't got the strength to swing a 1.5 oz weight on a string, then he's probably leaving the raft in a body bag anyway.

Visibility obviously not as good as Pyro flare in good or poor weather, but if as I suggested they are used if air search is heard, then I would use a Cyalume rather than light a firework in a rubber raft.

Perhaps they are better from what I have seen, that would need testing. I'd still argue that the strobe on your lifejacket is more intense and could be seen in the clag, again it needs a 'side by side' test.

Over the years there has been speculation on the number of liferaft deployments in UK waters where survivors have been recovered, the conclusion is that you can count the number on two hands. Most MOBs are single casualties falling off the deck, they don't have the luxury of leaving the vessel with a liferaft. Having gone for an 'unplanned swim' I was surprised how strength sapping it was, it was October and the water was still quite warm.

Having use and seen pyrotechnics I would always have them in the grab bag, the issue is the lack of practice. Getting permission to run a training event using pyrotechnics is almost impossible. Although visiting a French harbour on Bastille Day does give you the opportunity to practice with all the French boats, but make sure that you wait until you have concluded your training before joining in the calibrations.

 

[boomerangben]

Light sticks would work at night if night vision goggles are being used. I would imagine they are useless during the day and not easy to see from another boat by night.

This discussion always interests me. It strikes me that we get very hung up on being seen and how good a product is at night. But we do most of our sailing during the day when the sun reduces the effectiveness of all but the very brightest of lights.

A life jacket light can be seen for miles at night on night vision goggles (unless it’s a coloured LED, which they generally aren’t). I imagine they are much, much more difficult to see from a lifeboat in any significant sea state, and I imagine pretty useless by day.

Raising the alarm these days is best done using a radio, PLB or EPIRB. Having said that bear in mind you nearest rescuer almost certainly won’t be able to pickup a 406 signal and might not get your lat and long from the radio. Getting spotted in the last two or three miles is key. If you are on a burning boat — that’s easy to see. A white boat amongst other white boats or white caps, not so easy. A person in the water, very very difficult.

So what are the scenarios that would lead to needing an electronic/traditional pyro? when are most likely to need it? (hopefully never but day or night) and who is that you are trying to attract attention from? - (usually the closest boat) and what gadgets are they using to see you? (mk1 eyeball, FLIR, NVIS, radar, AIS etc)? And most importantly, do you have the pyro to hand? Possibly not if you are a MOB.

To me the scenario is a PLB/EPIRB and mayday call (maybe DSC, but might also be handheld at either end) that most other boats will pick up, some might have got the lat and long and plotted it (manually or automatically) and then start looking out. At that point a fiery smoky traditional pyro leaves no doubt who’s in trouble and where they are, day or night.

 

[veshengro]

Right! Now pay attention....are you sitting comfortably everyone?

Repeat after me ...Quote... " consider something like this..in addition...to the kit you would normally carry. "

 

[boomerangben]

Right! Now pay attention....are you sitting comfortably everyone?

Repeat after me ...Quote... " consider something like this..in addition...to the kit you would normally carry. "

May I hazard a guess that you are ex or current military? The only other place I’ve heard of the swinging cylume was from ex junglies. Great for the scenario of extracting troops by nvis equiped helos (and of course therefore of relevance here) but of limited value in other boating scenarios. However, I am a great believer of having lots of tools in the box to choose from and cylumes have a place in there too

 

[srm]

.If a survivor hasn't got the strength to swing a 1.5 oz weight on a string, then he's probably leaving the raft in a body bag anyway.

Oh the wisdom of the armchair expert!
Have you tried to do this for real?
If not imagine being in a kiddies paddling pool with a flimsy tent over it (or a yacht's life raft if you prefer, they are much the same) being thrown around as the raft tips one way or another on the faces of every wave. The motion alone is quickly exhausting, cold making it even worse.. Even a fit person is likely to have difficulty, assuming that they are not distracted by their stomach continuously trying to empty itself of bile.

 

[capnsensible]

Oh the wisdom of the armchair expert!
Have you tried to do this for real?
If not imagine being in a kiddies paddling pool with a flimsy tent over it (or a yacht's life raft if you prefer, they are much the same) being thrown around as the raft tips one way or another on the faces of every wave. The motion alone is quickly exhausting, cold making it even worse.. Even a fit person is likely to have difficulty, assuming that they are not distracted by their stomach continuously trying to empty itself of bile.

Use the string to tie it to the flimsy tent and let nature do the hard work.....

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Use the string to tie it to the flimsy tent and let nature do the hard work.....

and make sure you've activated the life rafts strobe too!

 

[veshengro]

Oh the wisdom of the armchair expert!
Have you tried to do this for real?
If not imagine being in a kiddies paddling pool with a flimsy tent over it (or a yacht's life raft if you prefer, they are much the same) being thrown around as the raft tips one way or another on the faces of every wave. The motion alone is quickly exhausting, cold making it even worse.. Even a fit person is likely to have difficulty, assuming that they are not distracted by their stomach continuously trying to empty itself of bile.

Let's sort the first sentence out...

Crossed single handed in December, wandered the Leewards, French WI, American Virgins, Puerto Rico.
Bound for Florida, bad weather..very bad, prior to tropical Storm Andrea I think she was called which did not develope into the very early Hurricane as expected. 30 hours awake, hand steering under storm jib. Stuffed it on a reef somewhere between Great Inagua and Mayaguana. North East of Southern tip of Cuba.

Fired flares, pretty red ones, mayday on VHF (limited range) last resort pulled the Epirb trigger while in the the liferaft..yep., been there done that, injured and in bungalow size seas too. Picked up by US Coast Guard out of San Juan Puerto Rico at the edge of the Helio range, so taken to Turks and Caicos as I am a Brit and they patched me up and gave me some clothes.

Flew home a few days later after semi recovery from injury via JFK New York with just my grab bag as my wordly goods.

Boat was a steel Gaff Cutter..This is the Internet so you don't need her name, so you'll have to believe S/Y on the Immigration stamp..





All other evidence that this is not Bullshit is on the sea bed I'm afraid.

 

[srm]

All other evidence that this is not Bullshit is on the sea bed I'm afraid

Sorry to hear about the loss of your boat. Probably the worst thing that can happen to a single hander.

 

[rotrax]

A really sad outcome.

I am perplexed though.

A previous contributor and Steel Boat enthusiast and builder maintained that Steel Boats were virtually unsinkable and could survive four days of pounding on a Mexican surf beach.

It might have been a guy called Swent Brain.....................................

 

[veshengro]

Just briefly. After 30 hours of hand steering I tried to pass through a gap in the Reef to gain deep water where I intended to try laying a hull in the enormous seas. I had little option as even standing up steering and hanging on to the Tiller in the violent motion I kept falling asleep. In the darkness I headed for the only patch of dark water with breaking surf on each side. I hit the very end of the Reef and she fell onto her starboard beam end and wedged, filling with every sea breaking over her. If she slid off half full of water to deeper water which was about where her masthead was,... at the time... I feared she would just slide off and sink, so I abandoned her.
In Providence, Turks and Caicos, about 36 hours later after I had been patched up and slept, the US Coastguard told me that they had overflown the site for recording of wreck purposes and she had gone.
If as Mr Brain states you hit a Reef and are surrounded by shallow water then yes I agree, a steel boat will get battered but if on her beam ends and awash, poised above deep water, what people say or guess will happen doesn't always transpire.

 

[Stingo]

With hindsight, what would you have done differently, @veshengro?

 

[Elessar]

I recently put out a blog about the pros and cons of electronic flares. It has sparked some debate about whether or not they can or should replace pyrotechnic flares...

Would you go to sea with electronic flares instead of pyrotechnics?

Pete

Not instead but I’d have far fewer than the coding rules demand.
They need to get into the 21st century.

 

[veshengro]

With hindsight, what would you have done differently,

I was in San Juan Puerto Rico bound for Florida. Us officials advised me that my intended route along the Cuban coast ( there is a deep water passage about 40-50 miles wide, along the coast. (Haven't got my charts and it's late so you'll have to look it up) I wanted to avoid the reefs and shallows, but was advised against getting close to Cuba because of recent incidents with US flagged vessels and we (Brits) as US allies were not flavour of the week with the Cubans because of tensions about Guantanamo Bay. Any way, single handed I was told ..stay away, go up through the Islands.
Weather forecast was good so I sailed. Weather then turned bad further North off Florida Coast and I got caught in the delayed effects.
I should have turned back to San Juan, but guessed wrongly that the bad weather was only temporary as the Hurricane season was still at least a month away. Ha! it never developed into a Hurricane but it was enough to end my little game.

 

[rotrax]

Just briefly. After 30 hours of hand steering I tried to pass through a gap in the Reef to gain deep water where I intended to try laying a hull in the enormous seas. I had little option as even standing up steering and hanging on to the Tiller in the violent motion I kept falling asleep. In the darkness I headed for the only patch of dark water with breaking surf on each side. I hit the very end of the Reef and she fell onto her starboard beam end and wedged, filling with every sea breaking over her. If she slid off half full of water to deeper water which was about where her masthead was,... at the time... I feared she would just slide off and sink, so I abandoned her.
In Providence, Turks and Caicos, about 36 hours later after I had been patched up and slept, the US Coastguard told me that they had overflown the site for recording of wreck purposes and she had gone.
If as Mr Brain states you hit a Reef and are surrounded by shallow water then yes I agree, a steel boat will get battered but if on her beam ends and awash, poised above deep water, what people say or guess will happen doesn't always transpire.

The steel boat enthusiast and builer using the "Oregami" method was Brent Swain. I 'spoonerised' his name at an attempt at humour.

Bad luck with the wreck, glad you survived.

We sold our steel boat two weeks ago, a 1986 built Hartley 32.

She was strong and seaworthy.

 

[veshengro]

Double post...


11 minutes ago