Electricians - House not boat

Richard10002

Richard10002

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Hi,

posted here rather than lounge for wider exposure... could be handy for boats in relation to shore power, (vaguely?).

I'm going to let out the flat I live in, which is in a house with 7 flats total.

The problem is that my flats' electric supply also supplies the common parts, (internal & external lighting & hoovering etc.).

I have asked United Utilities to fit a Landlords supply meter, but they say the whole house cannot accommodate another supply according to their regulations. When I suggested that the common parts were already using electricity, so no more would be drawn, they said that the new supply could be used to supply another flat...... I gave up arguing.

My plan is to fit a meter between the flat consumer unit and the common parts consumer unit. My agent could then calculate what has been used by the common parts and refund it to the tenants.

Can I just buy one of these:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?V...p;rd=1&rd=1

and fit it, (or have it fitted), with the right kind of wires in and out of it? Or is there more to it than that.

Cheers

Richard
 
Much simpler idea. Fit the common area lights with low consumption bulbs (if you have not done so already) Tell the incoming tenant of your flat that his electricity bill includes the common areas, and that you will rebate him an agreed sum from the rent in respect of that. The chances are that common area elecricity only amounts to a few pounds per month, and it is not worth fitting a separate meter. Tell the tenant to watch out for anyone plugging anything other than the hoover into common area sockets.
 
Richard , if you have ( as you say ) a common parts consumer unit then yes , one of those should do the job , but I presume you're not intending to do this job yourself
 
I agree,

We did the same thing. We advertised the place at full rent and when a tennant took up the offer we rebated £10 a month for common area electricity. He then fitted energy saving bulbs to save his cost... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Cheers

Paul
 
[ QUOTE ]
Richard , if you have ( as you say ) a common parts consumer unit then yes , one of those should do the job , but I presume you're not intending to do this job yourself

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for that, and I take your point...

However, given that it's only 2 wires in and 2 wires out, not sure what can go wrong if I research it properly, (particularly when I consider some of the cock ups various plumbers and electricians have made over the years).

I presume this is one of those Part P regulation things or similar?

Richard
 
[ QUOTE ]
Much simpler idea. Fit the common area lights with low consumption bulbs (if you have not done so already) Tell the incoming tenant of your flat that his electricity bill includes the common areas, and that you will rebate him an agreed sum from the rent in respect of that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Low energy bulbs already fitted.

Hall Stairs Landing 5 x 11w bulbs @ 24 hrs = 1320wh per day
Outside 7 x 11w bulbs @ 14hrs = 1078wh

approx 72Kwh per months @ say, 10p per KWh = £7.20 per month.

The trouble is, both me and my agent dont think tenants will believe that it will be so little, hence the meter.

For the sake of £100 or so to supply and fit one, I dont want to risk a potential tenant refusing the flat, (perhaps without giving a reason), and it remaining empty for longer.

e.g. 1 month empty = £400 or so.

Bit thanks for the thoughts

Richard
 
If your common area consumer unit is a modern type with MCBs clipped on to a DIN rail, and it has a spare way, you might want to consider fitting a modular kWh meter. RS part number 621-7147 is the beastie. (I can't get posting a link to work.) It's 1 DIN module in size - the same as a MCB. Very neat, and not too dear: £57 inc. VAT. I can see lots of applications for these - including marina distribution bollards where I first saw one. (This is now a legitimate boaty thread!)

If you do want a conventional meter, then your ebay price of £80 is high. Electricity companies bulk buy new, fully certified ones at well under half that. For your application an uncertified second hand one would do fine, and should be obtainable for c. £20 or so. There used to be a regular advert for them in Exchange & Mart (does it still exist?).

Interesting aside: in the early days of electricity privatisation the then Regulator predicted that consumers would soon buy their meters from B&Q! Unless I've missed it, we're still waiting...
 
I believe that the supply wires up to the first consumer meter which supplies the electric in your building, (yours by the sound of the common area provision) is the legal property of the electric supplyer, and cannot be touched without their permision. Also you can only add units 'after' the first consumer meter as that is where you can switch off supply.

The electric suppler has to send someone round to turn off electricity for such work as meter replacement, which also requires advance written notice to other users that would be affected in the street.
Hope this helps, Chrissie
 
Chrissie
As a self employed electrician , please take my word for it , you don't need to do it like that , if I had to go through that I'd be bankrupt very quickly
Cheers
Dave
 
This is partly right.

For the great majority of domestic customers the "Point of Supply" was traditionally defined as the outgoing terminals of the Electricity Company's meter. (To keep it simple I'm entirely avoiding here the post 1998 complications of the multiplicity of companies now involved.) That meant that the incoming cable, it's termination including main cut out, the meter supply tails and the meter all belonged to the Company, and the customer was forbidden to interfere with any of them. The tails from the meter to the consumer unit and everything beyond belonged to the property owner.

Difficulties arise when it is necessary to carry out work on the consumer unit or the tails from the meter since, for safety, it is necessary that they be disconnected from the supply, and only the Electricity Company can legally do this. This involves making appointment(s) and paying fee(s) for disconnection and reconnection. The disconnection itself is done by removing the main cut out, proving de-energised, then disconnecting the tails. It would normally not involve interference with any other customer's supply.

In recent years the Company may install a multi pole isolator between the meter and the consumer unit. The supply point then becomes the outgoing terminals of that isolator. An electrician is permitted to open the isolator, after which he can prove de-energised and disconnect without involving the Company. Isolators are normally fitted on new installations or when major work is done or (for a fee) on request.
 
only way to do it round here mate , and that's from the electricity board , they don't have the manpower to go round disconnecting supplies all the time , it's a rural area and most of the time they're dealing with other priorities or simply can't find a house . I've tried getting them out quite a few times and always been told to pull the fuse and notify them so they can get it re-sealed when the meter is read , which is about once every five years or done by customer . Very few systems round here are up to date and the electricity board have their work cut out maintaining power to the area
 
Hi Trevera, I had to wait months for Scottish Power to send someone out to put a loop in the cable coming into the house, as water was ingressing through the new hole and cable their contractors had put in. I was told at the time that I wasnt allowed to get anyone else to sort it out as they owned the cable to the point it goes through my meter, and to work on it required written notification to the other houses on the row as their electric would be switched off too.
Perhaps it was a different set of circumstances, I could only go by their letter.
Chrissie
 
[ QUOTE ]
If your common area consumer unit is a modern type with MCBs clipped on to a DIN rail, and it has a spare way, you might want to consider fitting a modular kWh meter. RS part number 621-7147 is the beastie.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://rswww.com/cgi-bin/bv/rswww/search...e&Nr=avl:uk

The consumer unit is a Contactum (BSEN 60439-3), with 4 ways, (2 x 7106B and 2 x 7132B), and a master switch. I think all the ways are used, but we may be able to share one of them....

Here it is.... It seems to have DIN rails.... I presume these are exposed when the cover is removed.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CMP4slash80N.html

I've seen cheaper meters, (£20 or so). I just posted the link to show what I was thinking....

is this better:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AMPY-SINGLE-PHASE-...1QQcmdZViewItem

Thanks for the input
 
I'm actually very sympathetic to the sad practicalities of it. The reality is that the Electricity Supply Industry employs fewer than 50% of the workforce it had pre-privatisation, and numbers keep dropping. And the raw headcount only tells part of the story: if you discount the recently recruited army of call centre staff who are trained to do little more than follow their scripts, the real reduction in the number of qualified engineers and tradesmen who actually understand the business is frightening.

The system is badly stretched and anyone who understands the business knows it. Not that you'd guess reading any of the annual reports. Mantras about "pushing the efficiency frontier", "meeting the competitive challenge" and "sweating the assets" abound, and of course executive remuneration continues to balloon out of control.

We've got away with it so far mainly because of the solid foundations put in place by the boring old nationalised industry, which of course was largely run by engineers, not bean counters. The luck won't last forever though.
 
Hi Chrissie , technically Dave is correct and the ridiculous system imposed by the electrical companies on us as consumers means we have to suffer prolonged discomfort or break the rules , he is an electrical engineer and knows what he's talking about as far as going by the book but the book doesn't take into account how a one day delay can put someone out of business . What people want is the service they pay for , but the electrical companies are totally unable to cope with the rule book and it'll all come to a head when people start kicking up a fuss . What I do is help people on low incomes or in desperation get around the system that is on the point of collapse . Eventually people will see who the cowboys are , they're the ones charging exhorbitant fees and using a rule book to justify them .
I have no beef with DaveS other than the fact that he describes the way I work as that of a cowboy , when the county council are pefectly happy for me to sign off my own work as complying with all regulations , and the electricity board are happy to let me do their job
 
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